HELP WANTED,PLEASE! Moral/ethic issue on buying/selling

jesse1dog

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In mid-September having previously been assured by the seller that the item was ‘unused’ I bid on, and won, a Panasonic Lumix camera on eBay. It arrived at the end of the following week very badly packed with the camera rattling around in the box and without the additional items listed. What damage could the camera have suffered?

Two emails to the seller went unanswered and as I was dubious about the camera because of its potential damage due to the bad packing I contacted eBay. Having given the seller a week to answer their email and no reply having been received the eBay Resolution Centre became involved.


My preference was to return the camera to the seller and I did so obtaining a tracking number which eBay require. However the courier was unable to make the delivery and obtain a signed receipt, so left a card indicating that the item had been taken to their centre store and could be collected. After a week without any seller action, eBay agreed to refund me my purchase price and postage which was duly done.


After 3 weeks the parcel had still not been collected from the delivery centre. As a result it duly came back to me the sender 4 weeks after I had last seen it! I contacted eBay who were initially rather reluctant to discuss the situation as they had ‘closed the case’! But as I asked – ‘what happens now to this parcel?’ they agreed to contact the seller again with the statement that ‘if eBay haven’t heard back within the week we have instructed the sender to dispose of the item as he wishes’. I insisted on an email from eBay to this effect, and got it within the hour! eBay agreed that I had ‘gone by the book’ and done everything I should have done in the circumstances, and that they had no other way of dealing with the situation.

This all raises interesting issues about eBay – what sellers and buyers agree to in using this market place. It seems we are bound by eBay ruling whether we subsequently decide we don’t like it or not. This case was certainly a new one for the operative I talked to but can’t be unique.

During the weeks that have passed since this all started I have looked several times at the seller’s entries on eBay. Initially he had 100% rating but a ‘negative’ appeared urging potential buyers to ‘BE AWARE’. I contacted the author of this posting to discover that he too had been supplied with mis-described goods, and had got a full refund using eBay Resolution Centre. I also posted similar negative feedback! Looking again yesterday I see that my seller ‘is no longer a registered user’ of eBay.

So I now have my money and a camera that at present might or might not work. I do have responsibility for it and it’s in my store cupboard. The seller can’t be contacted, eBay really don’t want to know. I have put in time and effort in trying to resolve the situation and it would seem stupid to leave the camera unused especially as it’s a depreciating item. However I feel somewhat uncomfortable but can’t see what else can be done. Is the camera really mine? Are eBay able to dispose of goods in this way?

Comments, suggestions, and advice from RFF members, please.

jesse
 
Last edited by a moderator:
1. Please refrain from setting any odd text colours - anybody who uses a different colour scheme will have considerable difficulties reading yellow on white.

2. The camera is yours to keep, trash or sell on. As far as I understand the German and British law, the seller might be considered to have abandoned it in either legislature. And even if some judge should rule otherwise, it is ebay who told you to dispose of it at your discretion, and who'd accordingly have to reimburse him or lose their claim against him.

Sevo
 
Beemermark - it can take me ages to check if a digital camera is working OK.
This is a Lumix G1 that I have no substantial experience on and there are a lot of menues to go through plus an evaluation of the results to assess any misalignment due to rough handling. Plus I'm not very bright when it comes to gadgets - it's old age that slows me down and having to change my glasses to look between camera and the small type of the handbook!!!

jesse
 
servo - sorry about the odd text colours.
I wrote in Microsoft Office and copied and pasted into RFF.
I have a set-up that is white text on black background so it looked OK when I posted. Thanks for the tip - I'll check next time I do something similar.

jesse
 
I suspect that a lot of stolen goods are being sold on ebay.

Your case sounds like that could be the case. Ebay isn't too interested in resolving these cases as they would have to get in contact with local authorities and also hassle some of its users (irrespective of there's really sound reason for this).

IMHO it looks like a sound business decision on ebay's side to not make too much noise. The seller doesn't want to stick his nose out too much and decides to disappear. Ebay declares the case resolved and has to take the loss of reimbursing the buyer. Maybe they feel that this would still be better than having to spend a lot on a matter in which they can only lose money - either from unduly reimbursing a buyer or by having to assign an emplpoyee to resolve a potentially questionable case of theft.

I know that my view of the situation isn't inspired by high morals either, but that's just the way it is.
 
I think it's terrific that you have paused to see if you're doing the right thing, or to find out what the right thing might be. You've done all you can to be fair to the seller and followed all eBay procedures, the camera is now yours to do with as you please.

I have a G1 and it's a surprisingly tough little camera. un-box it, charge it up and start playing with it, you're going to love it!

Kent
 
You have more than met your obligation and your honesty can’t be disputed. If any questions arise you can point to this thread as to your intentions. I say enjoy the camera sounds like it was meant to be in your hands.
 
Beemermark - it's old age that slows me down and having to change my glasses to look between camera and the small type of the handbook!!!
jesse
HAH! stick with film. I have the same problem and can only use P with a digital-🙂. Long live film. Digital is just too complicated. Only half joking about P, I have two digital cameras now. I don't even try to figure out all the modes and programs. I figure out one and stick with it, hence my question.
 
You did your part so rest easy.

I would not want it now as it is tainted. My choce would be to donate it to charity, local school etc.... I dont need that sort of bad karma in my life.


david
 
I had almost exactly the same thing happen to me on Ebay UK, and I worried about the ethics (and legalities) of it too. I bought a faulty Rolleiflex, seller agreed to refund my money, I attempted to return it but it turned out he'd gone back to his home country so the camera came back to me. Ebay paid me my refund on the basis of my tracked receipt and told me I was free to do whatever I wanted with the camera.

So I ended up several hundred pounds to the good but feeling guilty, and kept the camera for several months, all packed up and made a couple more attempts to reach the seller. In the end he reappeared, Paypaled me the cash for postage and I sent him the camera back, which I thought was only fair.

In your case it sounds like your seller may really have gone AWOL, so I wouldn't worry too much - Ebay refund your money by debiting his Paypal Account or credit card so if he was an innocent party it's likely he'd have contacted you for his camera.

I think the actual legalities are probably a bit tricky, but from my experience this does seem to be Ebay policy. I think the *right* thing to do is to return the item if you're able to, but if you're not I'd just use the camera and forget about it!
 
Keep it, it's yours. Treat it as an unsolicited gift.

I have a G1, it is a great camera. Slot in an SD card, just set the mode to iA (intelligent auto) and away you go.
 
You need to worry less. You had to go through a bit of trouble but now you have your money back and you got a camera for free. Good for you! At this point you need to ask yourself how much your own time is worth. If the guy wants his camera it's up to him to make an effort now but it sounds unlikely that he will.

Only other thing you could possibly do is pass on the S/N to the authorities and see if it shows up in any kind of register of stolen goods (if there even is such a thing). Other than that I'd say just be happy and enjoy the camera.
 
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