Hey folks, World Football Cup started

Honour obliges

Honour obliges

USA RFF members: those among you not knowing football are just loosing great joice. But those forgetting history are loosing your souls

http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/served/lafayette.html

With Jenni, discouraged by the defeat of the Spannish armada and now closing ranks with her English neighbours, your intervention now is most welcome
 
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nomade said:
...I'm not criticizing Hiddink ebcause he played it boring, because he wanted to win, like Italy always want to win, but i'm criticizing him, because he knows beautifull football was the alst thing he wanted to offer in thsi match. A hypocrite i wnated to say.

I still don't get this... HOW did Australia play it boring? I think that is hypocritical as Italy had gone into lock down mode in order to prevent a freer Australian game. No way Hiddink would have wanted Australia to play "boring" football, doesn't make any sense, as it's goes against the Australian teams advantages which are strength and fitness and at the time being a player up... we aren't the technical team that Italy is, no surprise there, and this is what in effect lost us the game as Italy with its greater international experience was too easily able to shut down the game and milk this so called penalty.

nomade said:
...in the 1st half before Materzzzi got the boot, Italy were far better than the australains, better (more effective)chances, and more organized...

Stats for half time showed Australia had 57% possession... not bad for an ineffective team. (Full time stats show Australia had 59% possession... not scoring with this amount of ball is criminal and partly why we lost... it simply shouldn't have come down to Grosso launching himself, Australia should have taken the game earlier by getting a goal!)

nomade said:
I donno what's wrong with what i've said, if you are looking at a building from tis side, you'll never see its door, but if you changed your angle, you'll see it, what's wrong with that...

Haha, OK well if we can't see the door does it really exist? :)

nomade said:
The problem talking now about italy is its reputation, like the refs warning italians from diving, fearing from dirty fouls, that's why the ref in the alst agme didn't hesitate giving materazzi the red. Not many peopel are sympathetic with Italy but their win was only fair and that one said many many many people can't deny.

Australia suffered from the same exaggerated reputation, intended to place pressure on the refs, with both Japan and Brasil making an issue of the Australian's being "too physical" and attempting to ensure that their players were "protected." So I don't think that was a uniquely Italian experience at this World Cup. The fact is that many many MANY people do deny that Italy's win was anything but fair... as can be seen even within this small world here at RFF.

nomade said:
All these teams want to win, i don't blame them for that...And no one can.

I totally agree with you... and have no issue with a team going all out to win as long as the team (or individual player) don't do so in a way which brings the game into disrepute, which is what Fabio "Cheap Trick" Grosso did.
 
akalai said:
Haha... yeah Francesco, poor Italy... so hard done by. Watch out, it's another conspiracy against Italy just like in 2002, anyone and everyone is out to get Italy! :)

"It was a scandal. The truth is that he [Moreno] had his mind set against us... this was a desired elimination. By who? I don't know... there are things greater than me, but the feeling is that they wanted us out." Francesco Totti, 2002

"I said that it would be tough, that we had additional opposition. I am not talking about a plot but about an additional opposition." Giovanni Trapattoni, 2002

...there are more than enough crazy X Files-esque type comments like these around from 2002...but I guess had the roles been reversed and Italy had been on the receiving end of this penalty call against Australia it would be due to some conspiracy or other??? Ofcourse! :)

I was not referring to bias from the referees, but screaming about Grosso's half dive (even the comments on the link you provided mostly agree that it was a penalty) and ignoring completely Bresciano dive that sent Materazzi off seems a bit hypocritical to me.

About 2002 it was a different story, Totti sent off without committiong a foul, a perfectly good goal disallowed for an non existing offside, and the Korean players that literally got away with murder were seen (and commented on) even by Blatter.

from wikipedia:
"In the 2002 World Cup, Italy was eliminated by co-host country South Korea in the round of sixteen. The match was marked by controversy, as referee Byron Moreno gave Francesco Totti a second yellow card in extra time for an alleged dive, and disallowed an Italian goal. Replays seemed to indicate both that the card was unfounded and the goal was legal, but the decisions stood and South Korea won 2-1, again with a golden goal in extra time."

If then you look at Spain Korea on the successive turn of the same world cup, and the doubt that the koreans made some nice presents to the referees is more than justified.

And about Moreno and his reliability as a referee, still from Wikipedia:
"In September 2002, Moreno, while a candidate in October elections for places on the Quito city council, was suspended for twenty matches[4] and investigated by Ecuadorian soccer authorities and FIFA[5] after a match he officiated between Liga Deportiva Universitaria de Quito and Barcelona Sporting Club from Guayaquil. With Liga de Quito trailing 3–2 at the end of the match, Moreno signalled six minutes of stoppage time, then allowed play to continue for thirteen minutes, during which Liga de Quito scored to tie the game in the 99th minute, then won the game in the 101st minute. Moreno was also accused of falsifying the minutes in which Liga de Quito scored their tying and winning goals in his official match report.
In May 2003, in his third game back from his suspension, Moreno was again suspended, for one match, after he sent off three players from visiting Deportivo Quito in a 1–1 draw at Deportivo Cuenca.[6] He retired the following month, blaming low marks for his performances."
 
akalai said:
Here is that link again for the Australia vs. Italy footage:

http://www.soccerblog.com/2006/06/video_lucas_neill_foul_on_gros.htm

... oh boy I wonder if that site will handle the hits it is getting!!!

As for the remainder of the World Cup well I'm hoping for some karma and for anyone BUT Italy winning. :)

I am not sure why you keep posting that link, since all the comments there seem to confirm that it was a penalty? :p
What are you actually trying to prove?:confused:
 
Hey Francesco...no need to get your knickers in a knot! :)

fgianni said:
...I was not referring to bias from the referees, but screaming about Grosso's half dive...

...mmm interesting, so now it is a half dive... is that like being a "little bit pregnant?"

fgianni said:
....and ignoring completely Bresciano dive that sent Materazzi off seems a bit hypocritical to me...

Hypocritical? How exactly... I never said Materazzi deserved the red card or that I agreed with the ref's decision. I don' think he should have even got a yellow....
 
fgianni said:
I am not sure why you keep posting that link, since all the comments there seem to confirm that it was a penalty? :p
What are you actually trying to prove?:confused:

I posted that link twice... obviously one time too many for you, but I posted it so people could make up their own minds instead of having to read the banter between partisan supporters of the teams involved... is that OK??? :cool:

Oh boy Francesco... if I got enough people to tell you that jumping of a bridge was good for your health would that make it true???

And if you are still confused well I am sorry but I wasn't trying to prove anything... don't feel I need to, the link was purely for people to sidestep our discussion and view the evidence and make up their own minds.

Simple.
 
akalai said:
Hypocritical? How exactly... I never said Materazzi deserved the red card or that I agreed with the ref's decision. I don' think he should have even got a yellow....

Still I did not hear you calling Bresciano a diver or a cheater, nor I seem to recall you saying that he did bring the game into disrepute, maybe I was distracted?:angel:

I said Grosso did undeniably accentuate the foul, but there was some contact, and the obstruction was made, this to me makes his misconduct musch less serious than Bresciano's dive, where no contact whatsoever was made, that's why I called it an half-dive.:)
 
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akalai said:
Oh boy Francesco... if I got enough people to tell you that jumping of a bridge was good for your health would that make it true???

However if enough people tells me it was a penalty, I am prepared to think that the situation was not so clear cut, and it was probably one of those borderline cases where the referee decision could go either way.

To go back to Korea-Italy 2002, I am sure you won't find anyone that will tell that sending off Totti was the right decision, and that the goal denied in extra time to Italy was correctly denied for offside, that is the difference.
 
Oh Francesco... isn't it "a time to make friends?" :)

fgianni said:
Still I did not hear you calling Bresciano a diver or a cheater, nor I seem to recall you saying that he did bring the game into disrepute, maybe I was distracted?

No you weren't distracted... I didn't call Bresciano a diver or cheater because he is neither.

fgianni said:
I said Grosso did undeniably accentuate the foul, but there was some contact, and the obstruction was made, this to me makes his misconduct musch less serous than Bresciano's dive, where no contact whatsoever was made, that's why I called it an half-dive.:)

Half-dive whatever... I'm half-over it. You are going in circles and it is boring.

Bring on some games... someone...anyone???
 
akalai said:
Oh Francesco... isn't it "a time to make friends?" :)

What, now that I was starting to have fun?:confused:

I mean tomorrow the games will start again and I will be watching football instead of ranting about it, but today let me have some fun!:D
 
Haha, hey Francesco good thing this didn't happen in a Germany vs. England game... ouch, definitely would have got messy!!!

Hopefully I will be well enough to head out and watch the England vs. Portugal game tomorrow... but am definitely going out to watch the Germany vs. Argentina game... have a German friend whose girlfriend is Argentinian. That alone should be fun to watch! :)
 
akalai said:
Haha, hey Francesco good thing this didn't happen in a Germany vs. England game... ouch, definitely would have got messy!!!

That would have been fun, but I would have not been able to argue with our Aussie friends about it :eek:

Should there be an England-Argentina final, I am sure a hand-goal from Argentina would trigger another war between the two countries.:p
 
And Akalai, if you think I wasn't making friends you should hear the words we use in Italy with our friends when we argue about football!
If I use them here I'll end up banned for 2 years from the forum.:D
 
Hey Francesco... NO I didn't think you weren't making friends... I was just being a goose by having some fun with what is a pretty silly slogan for the world cup... "a time for making friends!"

I mean it's a nice idea and all but for some reason I keep on imagining some sort of TV ad where someone runs in between battling hooligans from, for the sake of the argument, say Germany and England and yells out with the aid of a megaphone, "It's a time for making friends!", and see how long they last before being torn apart. Perhaps it could be an ad for travel insurance. Ofcourse the alternative ending would be that everyone stops fighting and embraces...sweet, that would be the FIFA version and the someone with the megaphone would be Pele! :)
 
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THIS IS MY OPINION

SO FAR AND UNLESS A SURPRISE ARISES, 4 teams are disputing the Cup (the other 4 being temporary passengers):

- Germany, for being the hosting team, and still on the game.

- Brasil, for having the biggest potential reserve, cautiously warmed during this championship.

- Argentina, for showing capability to win against the Mexican ferouz team (Hey Mexicans, my greatest admiration for you, had you won, it wouldn't be unfair !) Plus VIVA ZAPATA !
This did impress me. Victories over weaker teams never counted for me, not regarding Argentina nor anybody else.

- France, for their character victory over Spain. (I love the Motherland of Beniliam, Barcelona most, and nothing against her. But about football, I never held much of their national team performances at WFCs.)

WHO I WOULD LIKE TO WIN THE CUP ? The true truth is that I am still angry with Argentina for their shamefull character performance at the last WFC. This is not fair since the current team and coach showed very clearly to have learnt the lessons of not being stupid. But above all, I feel very much inspired by the French oldies display of youthness.
As for Germany, it never was a big deal to win the WFC at home with your local zunami behind. (This is exactly why I never held much of the French WFC victory, and why now I see them under so good light) Nor I liked Klinsman king-kong pathetic egotrip show, pointing to himself each time his team scored. Kindly post me something about the German team to symphatize with. OK, I have something, the outrageous british paparazzi atack on Angela Merkel !

Brasil ?: do they want it seriously ? They are kidding too much.
 
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It is quite iroinic that Italy is seen very often as a negative team, while Brazil a positive one, and at the same time what is universally recognized as "the game of the century" was played by Italy, not by Brazil.
 
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