Jeroen
Well-known
Solinar said:
That would have been a lot closer to a digital Hexar. Anyway, everything is relative. I don't hear any complaining about 'slow' lenses like the Tokina 12-24/F4.
Jeroen
Well-known
That's funny, I hate those
pvdhaar
Peter
True, for an interchangeable lens camera that's fine. You can always slap on a fast 50 to get shallow DOF when you need it. But when you're stuck with a fixed focal (wide), then the F4 limit is more restrictive..Jeroen said:
fgianni
Trainee Amateur
Solinar said:
The question is, does the camera remember the focus settings when switched off?
nightfly
Well-known
I know many consider the Ricoh GR-Digital overpriced but it actually has most of the features that everyone seems to be clamoring for:
1) Faster lens (2.4)
2) Really good user interface. It remembers all your setting when it is switched off.
3) Two wheels that you can set to control everything you might want quickly.
4) Snap focus mode for very fast photos.
It's not perfect, but for this type of camera it is damn near perfect. I have it set up so that by pressing the wheel on the back I can control the focus mode, the color/black and white mode (I primarily use black and white and a custom color setting) and ISO just by pressing the wheel then rotating through the modes and using the wheel on the front to change the settings.
Set to silent with the screen off in black and white snap mode at 800 ASA it produces film like images akin to using a rangefinder and hyperfocus.
I still like my film cameras better but for what it does, it's really what everyone seems to be looking for. Also you can usually pick a "demo" version up from Tony at Pop Photo for just over 500 with case and 1 gig card. Really not a bad deal for what it is. The extra price premium gets you the fast, fixed lens and a killer UI.
1) Faster lens (2.4)
2) Really good user interface. It remembers all your setting when it is switched off.
3) Two wheels that you can set to control everything you might want quickly.
4) Snap focus mode for very fast photos.
It's not perfect, but for this type of camera it is damn near perfect. I have it set up so that by pressing the wheel on the back I can control the focus mode, the color/black and white mode (I primarily use black and white and a custom color setting) and ISO just by pressing the wheel then rotating through the modes and using the wheel on the front to change the settings.
Set to silent with the screen off in black and white snap mode at 800 ASA it produces film like images akin to using a rangefinder and hyperfocus.
I still like my film cameras better but for what it does, it's really what everyone seems to be looking for. Also you can usually pick a "demo" version up from Tony at Pop Photo for just over 500 with case and 1 gig card. Really not a bad deal for what it is. The extra price premium gets you the fast, fixed lens and a killer UI.
RdEoSg
Well-known
I did play with the manual focus a bit, but the sales person wasn't too up on that feature. When you start spinning the little dial, a scale pops up on the back of the screen that gives you the feet/meters readout. I couldn't seem to get it to work very well though. I spun it around but it was almost like you had to just look at the screen and decide for yourself when it was in focus. I didn't see any sort of focus assist square or anything popping on the screen to say when a certain area was in focus. The little dial was very nice to spin. Must better than how it is on the Contax T3. It reminded me a lot of the dial on the T2.
If any of you are serious about wanting one, I would still pick one up in a store someday and play with it. These were my impressions of the camera but they seem to still be working on the thing and to be honest it wasn't a camera I was really interested in buying anyways. I just knew that a lot of you were so I picked it up to get a feel so I could let you all know my impressions of how it functioned.
It still seems too pricey for me even at $600!
If any of you are serious about wanting one, I would still pick one up in a store someday and play with it. These were my impressions of the camera but they seem to still be working on the thing and to be honest it wasn't a camera I was really interested in buying anyways. I just knew that a lot of you were so I picked it up to get a feel so I could let you all know my impressions of how it functioned.
It still seems too pricey for me even at $600!
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Nice looking camera. The f4 seems to be deal-breaker (too slow), unless the sensor is good at high iso. What's with the Foveon sensor? Isn't Sigma the only one using it? There seems to be a cult-like following (kind of like those weird RF folks) surrounding this sensor.
surrounding this sensor.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Looks like a loser to me. The advanced amateur will not like the slow lens. For a fixed FL, f4 is unacceptable, unless high ISO performance is very good, even then DOF control is difficult.
Digital zoom? What advanced amateur or pro really wants that? What occasional shooter, i.e. Joe Double-Double, wants a digicam without a zoom lens?
IT IS BUTT UGLY. OK, so was the Argus C3, which didn't keep it from being successful. I'm sorry, but adding the hood and external vf helps ... very, very little for me. In the effort to produce a clean, minimalist design, they left out the design part ... no styling cues, just a beveled edge added to a stock rectangle.
$600? No way. Soon I'll be able to buy a current production 4/3s body for about that, maybe a bit more and have a mount that is flexible ... I'll be able to mount classic fast primes and from the sounds of it the manual focus on such a kit will be better than the focusing options on the DP-1. If I want a somewhat larger sensor, then there are other options. But 4/3s is looking better what with the announcement of the E-510...
Digital zoom? What advanced amateur or pro really wants that? What occasional shooter, i.e. Joe Double-Double, wants a digicam without a zoom lens?
IT IS BUTT UGLY. OK, so was the Argus C3, which didn't keep it from being successful. I'm sorry, but adding the hood and external vf helps ... very, very little for me. In the effort to produce a clean, minimalist design, they left out the design part ... no styling cues, just a beveled edge added to a stock rectangle.
$600? No way. Soon I'll be able to buy a current production 4/3s body for about that, maybe a bit more and have a mount that is flexible ... I'll be able to mount classic fast primes and from the sounds of it the manual focus on such a kit will be better than the focusing options on the DP-1. If I want a somewhat larger sensor, then there are other options. But 4/3s is looking better what with the announcement of the E-510...
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Trius, the DP1 is pocket camera, 4.5 x 2.3 x 2.0". The Oly E-410 will be compact for a dSLR, but not this compact.
fgianni
Trainee Amateur
nightfly said:
What doesn't get you is an APS size sensor, like the one used in the Sigma DSLRs, if the lens is even only half decent I expect the DP1 to outperform the GRD in terms of image quality. But of course we will see pretty soon.
fgianni
Trainee Amateur
RdEoSg said:
Thanks for your offer.
It would be nice to know if the thing can be pre-focused easily, and if the focus setting is retained after a shutdown, also the times for writing a raw file are quite important to me, I am seriously thinking about the DP1, I wanted a GRD too but was put off by the ridiculous RAW writing times, and ended up getting an LX1 instead.
Cheers
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Wouldn't it be nice if someone in the camera business could put a ISO selector dial beneath the mode dial and a AF/MF switch beneath a small focus dial on a compact digital?
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I understand that. But for the limitations of this "pocket camera", $600 is silly money to me. There is a balance to size/functionality/purpose ... everyone has their own balance point, YMMV, etc., etc. For me, this camera doesn't hit any balance at all. Again that's just me. Did I mention it's ugly? :angel:Solinar said:
Bryan Lee
Expat Street Photographer
I just read that it will be released this summer,
In all fairness to the camera it has not been released yet. For those who have been keeping up with Sigma and the Foveon Sensor you know they withheld its release until some things were sorted on the DSLR 14 unlike another big brand. In the last couple months we have already watched this little camera evolve into what it currently is. Nothing says this is at all what will be released as it is a prototype and certainly not into production yet.
Ive seen many comments here about lens speed being considered slow. On a fixed lens film camera that may be a consideration but it is not at all a bother here as much of the magic happens behind the glass through the sensor and within the engine. When your dealing with a microchip size sensor as in some of the point and shoots which have a faster lens such as the GRD you need the speed. Think of a large format 4x5 on a tripod, my main lens is a 5.6 and it is not at all slow, now think antishake compensation to replace the tripod and larger sensor to act as a larger negative then think digital compensation for high speed film and there you have it. Im betting Sigma pulls it off here with the DP1 before release. They are in no way new to the camera game and actually have somwhat of a cult following of avid users.
I would also like to add this for thought, HCB shot 300 rolls of film in three years in India, This would leave plenty of time in between pictures for the writing if you only used 1 camera. I have a tendancy to carry around 2 cameras at all times, If you were strapped with 2 DP1s I doubt if you could out shoot them by alternating cameras. Just to take this a little further you could always drag along a DSLR with a 50 1.4 on it as a third for burst shooting or extreme low light situations if one needed it, I guess I shouldnt be giving away all my trade secrets though
In all fairness to the camera it has not been released yet. For those who have been keeping up with Sigma and the Foveon Sensor you know they withheld its release until some things were sorted on the DSLR 14 unlike another big brand. In the last couple months we have already watched this little camera evolve into what it currently is. Nothing says this is at all what will be released as it is a prototype and certainly not into production yet.
Ive seen many comments here about lens speed being considered slow. On a fixed lens film camera that may be a consideration but it is not at all a bother here as much of the magic happens behind the glass through the sensor and within the engine. When your dealing with a microchip size sensor as in some of the point and shoots which have a faster lens such as the GRD you need the speed. Think of a large format 4x5 on a tripod, my main lens is a 5.6 and it is not at all slow, now think antishake compensation to replace the tripod and larger sensor to act as a larger negative then think digital compensation for high speed film and there you have it. Im betting Sigma pulls it off here with the DP1 before release. They are in no way new to the camera game and actually have somwhat of a cult following of avid users.
I would also like to add this for thought, HCB shot 300 rolls of film in three years in India, This would leave plenty of time in between pictures for the writing if you only used 1 camera. I have a tendancy to carry around 2 cameras at all times, If you were strapped with 2 DP1s I doubt if you could out shoot them by alternating cameras. Just to take this a little further you could always drag along a DSLR with a 50 1.4 on it as a third for burst shooting or extreme low light situations if one needed it, I guess I shouldnt be giving away all my trade secrets though
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DougK
This space left blank
I'm definitely interested in this camera. It sounds like they have some firmware issues to sort out before release. I'll be interested to learn more and see some sample images as the release gets closer. It could solve a number of problems for me.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Trius said:
ugly can be very appealing to some...look at the R3A.
It's ugly in a pretty kind of way (I know...I know... this is 2AM closing time logic).
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Hmmm ... I don't see a "pocket camera" as replacement for a view camera used for landscapes or fine portraiture, product, etc. photography. DOF issues alone make this an iffy analogy for me. Apple & oranges.Bryan Lee said:
But I am not totally discounting this camera; I am just expressing doubts on its actual performance. I would be happy if I'm wrong. And if the camera shown and that Chris handled is indeed is subject to drastic change with regard to industrial design, i.e., if it doesn't end up being so ugly, then good. But a working prototype at PMA seems too close to finished for that.
MadMan2k
Well-known
I don't think it's ugly. Although, if they want to market it more towards film users, they'll get rid of the tacky all-too-common digital buttons on the back and come up with a better control scheme with as few buttons as possible, and make it operable without looking at the LCD, from power on to shooting, to switching ISO, to turning on and back off flash, to power off.
The f/4 lens isn't too big of a deal. The wide end of the Canon DSLR kit lens is 3.5 at 18mm, which is pretty similar to this and pretty usable. Even for low light, with a decent sized sensor that does alright at ISO 1600.
The f/4 lens isn't too big of a deal. The wide end of the Canon DSLR kit lens is 3.5 at 18mm, which is pretty similar to this and pretty usable. Even for low light, with a decent sized sensor that does alright at ISO 1600.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
RdEoSg said:
Sounds like you would want to pre-focus the camera like an M for street shooting and then frame with the accessory finder.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Has it crossed anyones mind that uncle HCB used to shoot with a f3.5 / 50mm lens and 100asa film for the first decade or two of his career?