(High credibility rumor) The new Leica mirrorless

[rfaspen]

Oh, I've had difficulties with ***off center compostion*** focusing using a summilux on an M. I can nail the focus on the subject when it falls at/near the patch, but off center.... tough. Tough at wide open or mostly wide open that is. I've been trying to develop strategies for this situation.....BTW, does anyone have a strategy they use...and would share with us(me)?

As for the rumored camera. I'm definitely curious. Not that it relates, but I've been looking harder at the SL2 (vintage) lately. Not sure why. I should be happy with my extensive Nikon accumulation, er I mean, system.

 

[YYV_146]

Hmm. When I had the Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4 ASPH and used it with my Leica M6TTL, I had no problems focusing and framing with it. I don't know why it would be "impossible" on the M ...?

G

Have you done off-center composing at F1.4? Placing the subject on the line-of-thirds for example. With the RF patch you can only confirm focus at the center, and when you recompose focus is thrown off the critical plane. Hassy has a system to automatically compensate for off-center composing, but I don't think Leica has ever had one.

And IMO this problem is much worse with the 21mm Summilux or the CV 35mm F1.2. With wide lenses off-center compositions is often the norm.

 

[jsrockit]

I wonder if this is it?

http://leicarumors.com/2015/09/23/leica-das-wesentliche-event-on-october-20th.aspx/

 

[Keith]

There will be a lot of hype leading up to the release of this camera ... if it's real!

Lots of teaser videos etc I suspect ....

 

[JMQ]

I am an unabashed Leica fan, and I understand the concept of market segmentation very well. Yet I am baffled by the myriad of product lines that came out of Wetzlar lately, the X, Q, T, M, S, and now another one?

 

[Godfrey]

I am an unabashed Leica fan, and I understand the concept of market segmentation very well. Yet I am baffled by the myriad of product lines that came out of Wetzlar lately, the X, Q, T, M, S, and now another one?

I don't know what's so baffling. Leica has diversified its products such that it is offering a similar mix to most other camera manufacturers now, that's all.

• X and Q are new, fixed lens, digital cameras for those who eschew the expense and complexity of interchangeable lens systems cameras.
• M is the same as it's been since the 1950s, including digital now too.
• T is a new interchangeable lens system based on the APS-C format, lower cost than the M.
• S is a larger format, digital replacement for the R film system.

The question is what the SL will provide in that context. If it is more direct replacement for the R system bodies and well matched to the R lenses, it has a clear position in the line.

G

 

[jsrockit]

The question is what the SL will provide in that context. If it is more direct replacement for the R system bodies and well matched to the R lenses, it has a clear position in the line.

Or it could simply be a FF, AF Leica with new lenses.

 

[willie_901]

Oh, I've had difficulties with ***off center compostion*** focusing using a summilux on an M. I can nail the focus on the subject when it falls at/near the patch, but off center.... tough. Tough at wide open or mostly wide open that is. I've been trying to develop strategies for this situation.....BTW, does anyone have a strategy they use...and would share with us(me)?

There is no viable strategy. There's a reason the SLR slowly dominated the 35mm market starting in the mid-1960s. There's a reason why auto-focus sold cameras.

Every tool has weaknesses. I enjoyed using optical RF cameras. I still enjoy using a camera I can operate as if it had an optical RF. But achieving focus on objects away from the frame center and using a narrow DOF with a RF is futile.

 

[willie_901]

I don't know what's so baffling. ...

Me either.

The SL could simply be a less expensive version of the S. Why wouldn't Leica want to appeal increase its product diversity? To a point more diversity means more customers. After all the main R&D costs (CMOS sensor assemblies, displays, AF and firmware code) are slightly modified and repurposed. Product development cost is much less than that for a new system... like the M240.

 

[Hsg]

I am an unabashed Leica fan, and I understand the concept of market segmentation very well. Yet I am baffled by the myriad of product lines that came out of Wetzlar lately, the X, Q, T, M, S, and now another one?

The only way to grab attention and potential customers is to be in the news and talked about in social media. The only way camera companies can stay up to date with social media talk and news is to release new products as often as they can. For example Sony has nearly perfected this strategy, there is always news of some up coming Sony camera.

Leica is also trying to be in the news with frequent releases of cameras. But while Sony is catering to a large market, Leica with its small market might just overwhelm its own fans with one too many cameras...

 

[f16sunshine]

Me either.

The SL could simply be a less expensive version of the S. Why wouldn't Leica want to appeal increase its product diversity? To a point more diversity means more customers. After all the main R&D costs (CMOS sensor assemblies, displays, AF and firmware code) are slightly modified and repurposed. Product development cost is much less than that for a new system... like the M240.

So a 135 format Mirrorless S model to go along side the Medium Format S ?

3 seperate AF lens systems plus the M mount system or rather 4 lens mounts from one manufacturer ?
Seems unprecedented to have so many systems under one roof.

Leica has great products but has had a bad run of QC in the last decade.
It will be interesting to see how they manage yet another system in regards to actual production.

 

[Godfrey]

Have you done off-center composing at F1.4? Placing the subject on the line-of-thirds for example. With the RF patch you can only confirm focus at the center, and when you recompose focus is thrown off the critical plane. Hassy has a system to automatically compensate for off-center composing, but I don't think Leica has ever had one.

And IMO this problem is much worse with the 21mm Summilux or the CV 35mm F1.2. With wide lenses off-center compositions is often the norm.

This effect is only at issue when working at the near-range limits of the lens, which is not where I am usually using a 75mm Summilux (or any other lens) when wide open, which is when it counts the most. When working in very close, I always stop down so that I have enough DoF to be useful. And, of course, with today's Live View on the M-P, I'd simply switch on Live View and focus wherever I needed to focus.

You and so many others complaining about this sort of thing are focusing on pixel performance of lenses. I prefer to focus on photographs. 🙂

G

 

[Godfrey]

Or it could simply be a FF, AF Leica with new lenses.

Sure. Nothing wrong with that either.

G

 

[Doug]

Could the SL be an S-with-Less... that is, a mirrorless version of the S typ007. Accept S lenses with adapter, as its own lenses could be more compact, closer to the sensor... This would be unique in the market, expanding on the S niche.

 

[jsrockit]

Could the SL be an S-with-Less... that is, a mirrorless version of the S typ007. Accept S lenses with adapter, as its own lenses could be more compact, closer to the sensor... This would be unique in the market, expanding on the S niche.

It wouldn't cost $8000 with a lens though would it?

 

[Doug]

Conceivably $8000 without lens... Hmmm, maybe that would be too optimistic! The current S body is twice that. Ok, my speculation is unlikely. 😱

 

[jsrockit]

It would be nice though Doug. 🙂

 

[YYV_146]

This effect is only at issue when working at the near-range limits of the lens, which is not where I am usually using a 75mm Summilux (or any other lens) when wide open, which is when it counts the most. When working in very close, I always stop down so that I have enough DoF to be useful. And, of course, with today's Live View on the M-P, I'd simply switch on Live View and focus wherever I needed to focus.

You and so many others complaining about this sort of thing are focusing on pixel performance of lenses. I prefer to focus on photographs. 🙂

G

Near-range limit? The focus shift off the eyes is very obvious with, say, the Noctilux ASPH at 10-15 ft. I don't consider portraits without the eyes in focus as "usable" shots, especially for printing.

My go-to event lens is the 21mm Summilux which is great in tight crowds, but does not play well with center composition. 21mm is too wide unless the frame can be filled with multiple objects, which you have to choose one to focus on.

I recall that the M240 can't magnify focus in live view off-center...maybe this has changed in the M-P. Still, the ability to quickly and reliably focus off-center is not trivial.

 

[JMQ]

I don't know what's so baffling. Leica has diversified its products such that it is offering a similar mix to most other camera manufacturers now, that's all.

• X and Q are new, fixed lens, digital cameras for those who eschew the expense and complexity of interchangeable lens systems cameras.
• M is the same as it's been since the 1950s, including digital now too.
• T is a new interchangeable lens system based on the APS-C format, lower cost than the M.
• S is a larger format, digital replacement for the R film system.

The question is what the SL will provide in that context. If it is more direct replacement for the R system bodies and well matched to the R lenses, it has a clear position in the line.

G

Dear Godfrey, it seems to me that it is an overkill for a super-niche player like Leica to further sub-segment the market. Everytime a new product line is created, it dilutes the resources in design, planning, manufacturing, marketing, sales, and even management time. IMHO, Leica should have fewer product lines, but really excel in those lines. Just my 2 cents.

 

[JMQ]

Leica with its small market might just overwhelm its own fans with one too many cameras...

I think we are violently agreeing with each other 😀