Hold off on the M10, Konost coming end of 2017

Ko.Fe. said:
"Arrested Development" is the "place" for Ferrania and Konost :)
One making short movies about film which not exists and writing about hard job at hundreds of APUG pages thread.
Another place is showing nothing but computer rendered images and talking about switching to better sensor.
It is all described in free on-line tutorials for new product developing, like IoT. The mistake is to trying to make it perfect, instead of releasing prototype and testing with market. But I'm not sure if both "places" are really into the "making" at all.
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Which is what Ferrania did with this b/w emulsion. They are testing the market and you criticized them in your previous post. They have had constant updates with results and keep everyone up to date. Konost literally has nothing.

Edit: Their shop is opening in 21 hours. http://www.filmferrania.it/shop/
 
brennanphotoguy said:
Konost literally has nothing.
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How would you know? Because of a website and how they respond to email?

If you are a small operation in development, those may not be high priorities. If a camera appears, there will be plenty of attention.

If not, big surprise. How many new businesses fail? 80%? Higher?

I would rather they spend their time making it happen than cajoling the suspicious.
 
uhoh7 said:
You think Leica has ever invented anything to do with their sensors? I would love to hear what it is, seriously.

"We had originally planned to begin pre-order end of 2016 with the first deliveries around Q2 of 2017. However, in order to deliver the highest-performing image quality at a price range we felt comfortable with, we decided to switch to a custom sensor in all our cameras. This will push production versions of the Konost rangefinders to Q3-Q4 of 2017. We’re still working on releasing limited edition beta versions of the rangefinder in the first half of 2017."

I don't remember "ready for pre-order" as a promise but maybe I missed that.

They had oringally planned delivery in Q2 of 2017, and now it's back to Q3-4. Yeah that kind of delay is unheard of. I can see why you are so bitter.

I will be surprised and delighted if they come to production. :) Even more so as it would show so many sarcastic, mean-spirted comments for what they are :)

There are unicorns, and there is tripe. ;)
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Shared patent with Kodak for shifted microlenses on M8/M9, special shape microlenses patents for M240 and SL. Corrosion-free coating for the M9 sensor in cooperation with Schott. (admitted, the last one was born out of necessity). The M240, SL, Q and M10 sensors are co-designs by Leica and various sensor design firms. The M8 and M9 sensors were adapted off-the-shelf Kodak sensors.

Now they have scuppered Konost out of the gate by patenting a two-mini camera rangefinder system
 
nasmformyzombie said:
The negativity in the thread is astounding. Why not wish these guys the best? I for one would like to see a viable, less expensive alternative to the grossly overpriced offerings from the bling specialists, Leica.
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I've seen these posts since 2006...:rolleyes: Usually relating to Zeiss Ikon. They only died down after Zeiss admitted that, even with their expertise at rangefinder camera building and Sony's mighty digital R&D behind them, they would not develop an M competitor because they could not compete with Leica on price.
So: Yes, Leica's are horribly expensive, but they are not overpriced.
 
nasmformyzombie said:
Here's something to chew on. Laugh at Konost if you will, but in two years, Konost will have a better chance of surviving than Nikon. And it's certainly possible neither one will be around.
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Hmmm..Nikon might well survive just about anything, given that it is owned by the vast industrial conglomerate Mitsubishi...
 
Huss said:
Yes. And no...

http://www.dslrbodies.com/nikon/about-nikon/nikon-faq/is-nikon-a-subsidiary-of.html

"But the basic answer is, no, Nikon is an independent company with its shares publicly traded on the Nikkei."

Publicly traded stock means it is not owned by one entity.
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Yes and no again. As it is in the Mitsubishi Keiretsu, with ties going back a hundred years there are connections that cannot be easily unraveled. For instance the Tokyo-Mitsubishi bank, a minor shareholder, is a major financier...

At any rate, it promises more stability than a struggling startup.
 
jaapv said:
Yes and no again. As it is in the Mitsubishi Keiretsu, with ties going back a hundred years there are connections that cannot be easily unraveled. For instance the Tokyo-Mitsubishi bank, a minor shareholder, is a major financier...

At any rate, it promises more stability than a struggling startup.
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Dear Jaap,

You should know by now that merely knowing what you are talking about is no substitute.

Would I back Konost, knowing what I know about camera design and the camera market? No. But if people want to gamble with their own money, well, it's probably better to gamble on the Konost than on the horses. I'd find it more enjoyable, anyway.

Cheers,

R.
 
jaapv said:
I've seen these posts since 2006...:rolleyes: Usually relating to Zeiss Ikon. They only died down after Zeiss admitted that, even with their expertise at rangefinder camera building and Sony's mighty digital R&D behind them, they would not develop an M competitor because they could not compete with Leica on price.
So: Yes, Leica's are horribly expensive, but they are not overpriced.
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I'm not sure that is accurate. In the film area Zeiss proved they could produce a camera that was in some respects better then a Leica M, for substantially less money, but they still couldn't compete. It all has to do with market, and who has the market share, and who can get it.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Jaap,

You should know by now that merely knowing what you are talking about is no substitute.

Would I back Konost, knowing what I know about camera design and the camera market? No. But if people want to gamble with their own money, well, it's probably better to gamble on the Konost than on the horses. I'd find it more enjoyable, anyway.

Cheers,

R.
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Dear Roger, I quite agree. I would like to see a Konost niche-within-a-niche camera. The chance of it becoming reality is about the same as me winning the lottery unfortunately.
 
steveyork said:
I'm not sure that is accurate. In the film area Zeiss proved they could produce a camera that was in some respects better then a Leica M, for substantially less money, but they still couldn't compete. It all has to do with market, and who has the market share, and who can get it.
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Well, it is what Zeiss said at any rate.
 
steveyork said:
I'm not sure that is accurate. In the film area Zeiss proved they could produce a camera that was in some respects better then a Leica M, for substantially less money, but they still couldn't compete. It all has to do with market, and who has the market share, and who can get it.
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Dear Steve,

And in some respects worse. But as you imply, making a successful digital version of the same thing is a rather different undertaking. Even if they could make it cheaper, which is deeply unlikely (think of the sensor development costs, and getting around Leica/Kodak/etc. patents), it would need enormous technical investment in order to have even a chance of taking a small part of a small market.

Cheers,

R.
 
nasmformyzombie said:
The negativity in the thread is astounding. Why not wish these guys the best? I for one would like to see a viable, less expensive alternative to the grossly overpriced offerings from the bling specialists, Leica.
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Competition is good, and I wish them the best, but: the digital Ms are similarly priced to the top-of-the-line Nikons and Canons. I don't understand this strange, almost ideological, antipathy towards the digital Leicas one often comes across on this of all forums.
 
stephen.w said:
Competition is good, and I wish them the best, but: the digital Ms are similarly priced to the top-of-the-line Nikons and Canons. I don't understand this strange, almost ideological, antipathy towards the digital Leicas one often comes across on this of all forums.
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I'm not defending anyone here but I don't think the top of the line Nikon and Canon DSLRs are a good comparison to a digital M. The Nikon DF would be a better comparison for me and I recently saw a brand new DF in a store for just under $2500. My M240 cost me three times that amount new ... I'm not begrudging that cost though because you pays your money and you makes your choice as they say.

And yes ... this place has Leica worship and Leica scorn available in equal amounts at times! :D
 
stephen.w said:
Competition is good, and I wish them the best, but: the digital Ms are similarly priced to the top-of-the-line Nikons and Canons. I don't understand this strange, almost ideological, antipathy towards the digital Leicas one often comes across on this of all forums.
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Dear Stephen,

Same here. But many people seem to see a digi-M as comparable with a mid-range SLR with mass appeal, and think it should be priced accordingly. Odd, really.

Cheers,

R.
 
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