Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
I have an old silver Mamiyaflex lens that works great except the three slowest speeds. It just needs a little lubricant. How do I lubricate the shutter on this lens?
How do I lubricate a Mamiya TLR lens?
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ChrisN
Striving
I look forward to seeing what the experts say. I have a 180mm lens, left over from my brief flirtation with the C330, which is in the same state. I have separated the lenses from the shutter and bathed it in lighter fluid, which got it working, but after the lighter fluid evaporated, it tightened up again. I suspect it deserves a proper service.
Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
It doesn't seem like there should be much to it. A couple small drops of grease on the timing mechanism should do it, i just can't see much of a way into it, and i dont want to screw it up...
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
As Chris said, it's real easy to separate elements from the shutter. The mamiya lenses are built like LF lenses, lens elements simply thread on the front and rear of the shutter assembly.
Bathing the shutter in lighter fluid should clean out all grease and dirt (I've done this once before and had a cup with black residue from one single lens, unbelievable how much gunk can hide in there!) but subsequently one needs to apply a few small drops of oil on the right places only, because flooding the shutter with oil will certainly throw things off (ask me how I know...)
Pretty sure there's a pictorial online somewhere, that somebody in-the-know can link to!
Bathing the shutter in lighter fluid should clean out all grease and dirt (I've done this once before and had a cup with black residue from one single lens, unbelievable how much gunk can hide in there!) but subsequently one needs to apply a few small drops of oil on the right places only, because flooding the shutter with oil will certainly throw things off (ask me how I know...)
Pretty sure there's a pictorial online somewhere, that somebody in-the-know can link to!
I've never been further than cleaning the shutter blades of a Mamiya shutter so know little about them. I've only looked into Compur or Prontor. A few points, though.
Should the shutter in question be lubricated? Not all types require this according to manufacturer specs. Don't be too hasty until you establish the answer.
Is the shutter clean? If not this is likely to be the problem in itself. It's not at all unusual for them to need several cleans before reliable operation occurs.
Grease may be appropriate in very very small quantities for specific locations such as a cocking rack for instance, but if it is the slow speeds that stick this indicates the problem is likely to be a dirty slow speed escapement. Depending on the shutter this should either run dry or at most may need a speck of oil on the gear bushings and pallet.
You wouldn't use grease of any kind in an escapement; all this would do is clog it up completely. I prefer Moebius synthetic watch oil for Compur escapements. Deckel recommended lubrication of the escapements in the repair manual for their shutters and they were, from memory, originally dipped in or painted with a proprietary lubricant prior to assembly at the factory. Not sure about the Mamiya items (Seiko units IIRC?).
As you will appreciate, extremely light oils tend generally to be of low viscosity and will readily flow. Thus, the choice of lubricant (if needed) should be informed and specific to the application.
The oil I use is ultra fine grade specifically formulated not to drag gears and, used in correct minuscule amounts, will not creep onto shutter blades or other components where it may create its own problems. I've used it successfully in several Rollei TLR escapements and a few Contaflice (which also use a Synchro Compur) with very good results over a couple of years now, but of course there are other alternatives. Many speak well of Nye oil, which I have not seen in Australia and cannot comment on directly. But first, please ascertain that this is the problem and that lubrication is required. It may well be that cleaning is all that is needed.
Regards,
Brett
Should the shutter in question be lubricated? Not all types require this according to manufacturer specs. Don't be too hasty until you establish the answer.
Is the shutter clean? If not this is likely to be the problem in itself. It's not at all unusual for them to need several cleans before reliable operation occurs.
Grease may be appropriate in very very small quantities for specific locations such as a cocking rack for instance, but if it is the slow speeds that stick this indicates the problem is likely to be a dirty slow speed escapement. Depending on the shutter this should either run dry or at most may need a speck of oil on the gear bushings and pallet.
You wouldn't use grease of any kind in an escapement; all this would do is clog it up completely. I prefer Moebius synthetic watch oil for Compur escapements. Deckel recommended lubrication of the escapements in the repair manual for their shutters and they were, from memory, originally dipped in or painted with a proprietary lubricant prior to assembly at the factory. Not sure about the Mamiya items (Seiko units IIRC?).
As you will appreciate, extremely light oils tend generally to be of low viscosity and will readily flow. Thus, the choice of lubricant (if needed) should be informed and specific to the application.
The oil I use is ultra fine grade specifically formulated not to drag gears and, used in correct minuscule amounts, will not creep onto shutter blades or other components where it may create its own problems. I've used it successfully in several Rollei TLR escapements and a few Contaflice (which also use a Synchro Compur) with very good results over a couple of years now, but of course there are other alternatives. Many speak well of Nye oil, which I have not seen in Australia and cannot comment on directly. But first, please ascertain that this is the problem and that lubrication is required. It may well be that cleaning is all that is needed.
Regards,
Brett
Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
I've found some resources for how to open the shutter for a look inside, but I need a special spanner wrench for this particular shutter. When I get it open I'll check the cleanliness before doing anything at all. Taking the glass out and inspecting the blades themselves reveals a very clean shutter. I'll post what I find when I get the spanner for the screw I need to remove, and go from there.
Deniz Merdan
Established
Most iris shutters use graphite rather than oil. Graphite is dry and wont bind the shutter leaves at lower tension shutter speeds.
Some use graphite, I won't, I don't like the risk of it ending up over the inside of the lens. YMMV. But as I said, I have a preference for older German cameras--mostly with Compur shutters--and Deckel lubricated these originally with several different greases and oils as specified in their repair manual.
The tension of those shutters is the same at slower speeds, as it is as faster speeds. Except for earlier models which had a booster spring they run off the main spring at all the speeds including the slow ones. The difference is that the slower speeds use a gear escapement to delay the mechanism. If oiling a leaf shutter makes the shutter blades bind, then either the wrong oil has been used, or too much has been used. Wrong oil may of course include any oil if none is specified, a few Prontor shutters come to mind here.
Regards,
Brett
Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
From the sound of it, I only need to lubricate the gear escapement. I have seen where that is, now I just need to figure the correct lubricant to use on it.
And of course, I still need the correct spanner wrench for the screw securing the outer cover first.
And of course, I still need the correct spanner wrench for the screw securing the outer cover first.
Murray Kelly
Well-known
I have a Yashica-44LM that was very 'sticky'. Almost impossible to set the shutter with the thumb wheel. After a struggle I found a way to get into the shutter without ruining anything! 🙂
After a little Ronsonol here and there it was a bit better so I knew I was on the right track and then mixed a slurry of Ronsonol and graphite. I put the tiniest amount on the slow speed escapement and all was (is) fine. I did not screw the top plate on quite so tight (one notch on the retaining ring only) and it's fine now.
Not enough to migrate onto the lens.
Murray
After a little Ronsonol here and there it was a bit better so I knew I was on the right track and then mixed a slurry of Ronsonol and graphite. I put the tiniest amount on the slow speed escapement and all was (is) fine. I did not screw the top plate on quite so tight (one notch on the retaining ring only) and it's fine now.
Not enough to migrate onto the lens.
Murray
Well, I punched "Mamiya TLR repair manual" into ebay and only got one hit but it is for their shutter repair manual. I don't know anything about the seller. At least postage to you in the US is only $5 as opposed to $14 for me in Australia. 😉
I appreciate that by tackling the shutter yourself, you're no doubt trying to save the cost of paying someone to do the work for you, but personally, when I repair a camera I try to acquire as many manuals or other information as possible to assist. I may be an owner-repairer, but I still try to take a professional approach to my work.
I'm not suggesting you won't be able to get the speeds working properly without the manual, it is more of a philosophical point for me. The manual is available; why not acquire it and refer to its instructions, to complete the work to the highest standard you can? Remember, if you wish to acquire more lenses for the TLR, having acquired some skills in repairing them, you will then be in a position to consider examples needing some TLC, that can be bought cheaply and made to perform well.
Regards,
Brett
I appreciate that by tackling the shutter yourself, you're no doubt trying to save the cost of paying someone to do the work for you, but personally, when I repair a camera I try to acquire as many manuals or other information as possible to assist. I may be an owner-repairer, but I still try to take a professional approach to my work.
I'm not suggesting you won't be able to get the speeds working properly without the manual, it is more of a philosophical point for me. The manual is available; why not acquire it and refer to its instructions, to complete the work to the highest standard you can? Remember, if you wish to acquire more lenses for the TLR, having acquired some skills in repairing them, you will then be in a position to consider examples needing some TLC, that can be bought cheaply and made to perform well.
Regards,
Brett
Chris,
from your description, obviously it appears the mechanicals are basically OK if it was running. So there are likely to be two reasons why it stopped when the naptha flashed off (which is very common with this sort of thing).
One: it's not there yet, and needs more cleaning until it's right;
Two: it's clean enough but parts of the mechanism are sticking dry and need some help.
As I have already commented, I don't know enough about the Seiko shutters in these lenses to offer any guidance re: lubrication, but the issue will be one of the two, so you're probably over halfway towards fixing it already.
Regards,
Brett
EDIT:
Incidentally, looking at the first sentence of your post, I should add that I'm no expert! Just another camera owner who has a go at his own repairs (usually with good results).
ChrisN
Striving
Thanks Brett, what you say is entirely logical - it has to be one or the other! As I no longer have a body for the lens this is on the back-burner for now. I did get some lovely photos with that lens, despite my dislike for C330 ergonomics, so I might look for another body one day and tackle it again. Cheers!
PS I have a small bottle of a very light oil, sold under the name "Rocket Fuel", and made to lubricate the spool bearings in high performance casting (fishing) reels. I think that might do the trick. 🙂 But as Johan indicates, the real skill is in knowing where the drop of oil has to go, and keeping it away from the parts that don't need it.
PS I have a small bottle of a very light oil, sold under the name "Rocket Fuel", and made to lubricate the spool bearings in high performance casting (fishing) reels. I think that might do the trick. 🙂 But as Johan indicates, the real skill is in knowing where the drop of oil has to go, and keeping it away from the parts that don't need it.
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