airfrogusmc
Veteran
Thanks, I like many have a philosophy and an approach to the medium. I offered a different point of view, never attacked anyone and certainly never said anyone was wrong in their beliefs. Just clearly stated why I believe what I believe. And the language is freeing from rules because it all changes form situation to situation depending on intent and what elements you have to communicate with so its very fluid depending on intent and what elements you have in the frame to use. No reason to get mad or upset. This is a forum and suppose to be an open exchange of ideas. And as long as it doesn't get personal that should be a good thing, right? The images should always speak for themselves but there are many photographers as you can see by some of the quotes that have strong beliefs and many took the time to share those and those philosophies are also in their work. Its part of who they are so why wouldn't it be in their work?
4 years in the Corps taught me I can take anything that life dishes out. 4 years of college taught me I no longer had to but I certainly will speak up if I think I'm right and I will defend others rights to speak out whether I agree or not.
Sparrow
Veteran
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Despite the fact that camera bags are ridiculously overpriced, bag threads rarely devolve into acrimony.
faris
Well-known
It seems you make photos for yourself. Nothing wrong in that.
If you want to show it to others, what do you want them to see?
Any image will bring forth an emotion in the viewer; negative, positive, or just meh.
If it is just meh..than the photo is for you. Don't show it to others.
Mind you, meh to me might be the mother of all to others.
How to communicate emotion? Universally or region dependent?
Depends? What and the target audience.
Death, e.g. , is a universal occurrence. All can relate to it.
Similarly birth, smile, happiness.
Why does one think a particular photograph is a good one?
Answer that and you might answer the emotion part of the question too.
If you want to show it to others, what do you want them to see?
Any image will bring forth an emotion in the viewer; negative, positive, or just meh.
If it is just meh..than the photo is for you. Don't show it to others.
Mind you, meh to me might be the mother of all to others.
How to communicate emotion? Universally or region dependent?
Depends? What and the target audience.
Death, e.g. , is a universal occurrence. All can relate to it.
Similarly birth, smile, happiness.
Why does one think a particular photograph is a good one?
Answer that and you might answer the emotion part of the question too.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
I can only speak personally, but I want them to see that a human being shot the photo, that the unseen hand pressing the shutter was attached to someone that understood and cared about the human condition generally, and the subject of the photo specifically. And that is much harder in the doing than in the considering in the abstract.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
.... prove it
What.. that many only think the world that exists is in the cave but once the stick their head out of the cave theres an entire world out there that they didn't know existed? It happens all the time with knowledge.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Again color theory can help you convey emotion. There are artists that spent most of their time dealing with emotional response to color.
Line, shape, texture and other visual elements can also help you convey emotion. Bresson used all the those elements in his work and even wrote a lot about it.
Its a language and not unlike any other and the more fluent you become using it the more effective you become at communicating visually.
I have a good friend that works in platinum and coats her own paper. You can see brush strokes so a little bit of the human hand is there. She does that for that very reason.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
sreed2006
Well-known
Picket, I admire your quest. If you take or find an example photograph, please post it here so that we can have a clearer idea of what it is you are looking for and how to do it.
I've learned a lot from the discussions in this thread - and would be thrilled to find a way to accomplish what it is I think you are trying to achieve.
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
My belief, perception (call it what you will) is that only where the photographer truly connects with the person being photographed is there any hope of the photo conveying any feeling capable of being "read" by an independent viewer - i.e. someone who wan't there at the time.
Take for instance the war photos taken by Don McCullin. Aside from the photos of bodies - which itself can convey a harrowing emotion, it's fairly easy to read the situation and, perhaps, guess how the scene played out.
Conversely, despite usually being excellent from a technical perspective, I really struggle with many of the portraits taken and submitted as part of the Taylor Wessing prize (just as one example). Recently, many of the winners / highly commended have been utterly bland and unengaging to the point where I don't care enough about them to want to know what they're feeling.
Take for instance the war photos taken by Don McCullin. Aside from the photos of bodies - which itself can convey a harrowing emotion, it's fairly easy to read the situation and, perhaps, guess how the scene played out.
Conversely, despite usually being excellent from a technical perspective, I really struggle with many of the portraits taken and submitted as part of the Taylor Wessing prize (just as one example). Recently, many of the winners / highly commended have been utterly bland and unengaging to the point where I don't care enough about them to want to know what they're feeling.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Most of my posts have been dealing with this very issue. I have been on this journey for a very long time to. Most of the photographers I have quoted have found a way to put themselves in their work.
Your style is one way to get you into your work. When someone can look at your work and recognize it as Picketts I'd say thats putting Pickett in the work. You can tell a Witkin almost as soon as you look at it. Hes there. Everything he is in his work for good or bad and whether you like the work or not its hard to deny its his work. The same could be said for Siskind, DeCarava, Avedon to name just a few. They are all in their work.
Pickett check this out post#32 SORRY FORGOT TO ADD THE LINK
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127021&page=2
Last sentence of the article which I thought the timing of the post by johnwolf was in line with this conversation. Good read.
"In my opinion, no work of art can or should be separated from the personality of the artist and his life- attitude." Bill Jay
Sparrow
Veteran
erm ... surely that's a perception analogy rather than a proof? isn't it? ... perhaps you should try to condense your contention to a more readily understandable statement before we debate it?
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Yeah I guess your right there isn't a world outside the cave well as some would see it .The ones that have never poked their heads out.
Sparrow
Veteran
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Yep really.
I tend to agree with Adams, Weston, Brandt, Newman on this and its because if you know how to speak the language it frees you from the rules and I'm trying everyday to become more fluent.
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." - Ansel Adams
"Photography is not a sport. It has no rules. Everything must be dared and tried!" - Bill Brandt
"There are no rules and regulations for perfect composition. If there were we would be able to put all the information into a computer and would come out with a masterpiece. We know that's impossible. You have to compose by the seat of your pants." - Arnold Newman
"When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches." - Edward Weston
"....so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing." - Edward Weston
Over the years I have come to really realize this to be true especially for me and the way I work. I have found that every situation is different and what i want to say depends on the elements in the frame at the moment of exposure. If I am looking for things that fit into set rules then I may or more important may not be looking for the composition that works in that moment. Thats my take on it. And thats how i approach it now. It wasn't always the way for me but its what works now and I've learned a lot from looking at the works and reading the words of those photographers as well many others. The older I get the more important I see it and I try and get me into the image and that can't be done if as Weston pointed out if composition wasn't a personal thing. Caves can be so restricting sometimes. Don't ya think? Thats my 2 cents now the hard part finding my own way though all of this. For me and the world I want to see isn't inside the cave.
OPPPS almost frogot this really good thought by Bresson:
"A photo seen in its totality in one single moment, like a painting, its compostion is a melting together, an organic coordination of visual elements. You can’t compose gratuitously; there must be a neccessity, and you can’t separate form from substance." - Henri Cartier-Bresson
I tend to agree with Adams, Weston, Brandt, Newman on this and its because if you know how to speak the language it frees you from the rules and I'm trying everyday to become more fluent.
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." - Ansel Adams
"Photography is not a sport. It has no rules. Everything must be dared and tried!" - Bill Brandt
"There are no rules and regulations for perfect composition. If there were we would be able to put all the information into a computer and would come out with a masterpiece. We know that's impossible. You have to compose by the seat of your pants." - Arnold Newman
"When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches." - Edward Weston
"....so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing." - Edward Weston
Over the years I have come to really realize this to be true especially for me and the way I work. I have found that every situation is different and what i want to say depends on the elements in the frame at the moment of exposure. If I am looking for things that fit into set rules then I may or more important may not be looking for the composition that works in that moment. Thats my take on it. And thats how i approach it now. It wasn't always the way for me but its what works now and I've learned a lot from looking at the works and reading the words of those photographers as well many others. The older I get the more important I see it and I try and get me into the image and that can't be done if as Weston pointed out if composition wasn't a personal thing. Caves can be so restricting sometimes. Don't ya think? Thats my 2 cents now the hard part finding my own way though all of this. For me and the world I want to see isn't inside the cave.
OPPPS almost frogot this really good thought by Bresson:
"A photo seen in its totality in one single moment, like a painting, its compostion is a melting together, an organic coordination of visual elements. You can’t compose gratuitously; there must be a neccessity, and you can’t separate form from substance." - Henri Cartier-Bresson
Sparrow
Veteran
As you wish ...
RFH
rfhansen.wordpress.com
My two cents:
If you want real emotion, I guess you have to go out in the world and find it - and be quick/lucky enough to capture it. The photo in this thread of the crying/praying woman says it all.
You can also create it yourself. But, as others have pointed out, there's no guarantee the viewer will react as expected.
In my experience it has a lot to do with the type, intensity and direction of light. Study paintings and other visual arts to see what others have done.
If you work with a model, it also depends on that person's acting skills and what you instruct them to do. How is the camera positioned in the room or situation, what's the angle of view? A wide angle shot from below often conveys a dramatic sense and makes the person more imposing.
Then you have the aspect of emotional and symbolic colour, which is also very important. A red background says something very different than a navy blue or green one.
The above may sound obvious and banal. But these are in my eyes some of the more important aspects of creative control in photography.
If you want real emotion, I guess you have to go out in the world and find it - and be quick/lucky enough to capture it. The photo in this thread of the crying/praying woman says it all.
You can also create it yourself. But, as others have pointed out, there's no guarantee the viewer will react as expected.
In my experience it has a lot to do with the type, intensity and direction of light. Study paintings and other visual arts to see what others have done.
If you work with a model, it also depends on that person's acting skills and what you instruct them to do. How is the camera positioned in the room or situation, what's the angle of view? A wide angle shot from below often conveys a dramatic sense and makes the person more imposing.
Then you have the aspect of emotional and symbolic colour, which is also very important. A red background says something very different than a navy blue or green one.
The above may sound obvious and banal. But these are in my eyes some of the more important aspects of creative control in photography.
cz23
-
For me it's not so much about conveying emotion. I'm more interested in meaning, metaphor, and suggestiveness. But I likewise find it difficult and somewhat frustrating to convey my thinking through photographs. I know what I see and think, but that has no relationship to what the audience will see and think.
Perhaps that's the way it should be. But the older I get and the deeper I go into photography, the more I want it to express my values -- not in an overt or preachy way, I hope.
Lately I've been experimenting with combining photography and poetry. I'll still create both independent of each other, but I like the way they can work together, and I particularly enjoy the contemplative process of blending them.
John
Perhaps that's the way it should be. But the older I get and the deeper I go into photography, the more I want it to express my values -- not in an overt or preachy way, I hope.
Lately I've been experimenting with combining photography and poetry. I'll still create both independent of each other, but I like the way they can work together, and I particularly enjoy the contemplative process of blending them.
John
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
Amen, brother!