How do you scan color?

PatrickT

PatrickT

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No matter what I do, I can't seem to get color scans correct. Sometimes I get lucky, but more often than not, the color is off. I can't seem to get it right.

I have been looking around at getting my film scanned at the time of processing, but it's a bit to cost prohibitive to me at the moment.

So, how do you scan color negatives and get them to turn out right? Have any examples?

I love Jonathan Canlas' photos, and his recent blog post just reaffirmed how terrible I am at scanning: http://canlasphotography.blogspot.com/2014/02/a-rollei-my-family-whole-lot-of-aloha.html

Thoughts?
 
I'll be the first to recommend this, but I doubt I'll be the last: ColorPerfect. It has a demo version that puts a grid over the finished product so you can test it for your purposes.

-Greg
 
Gregoyle said:
I'll be the first to recommend this, but I doubt I'll be the last: ColorPerfect. It has a demo version that puts a grid over the finished product so you can test it for your purposes.

-Greg
Click to expand...

This.

It is very easy to get good color scans using ColorPerfect. The interface is a bit obscure, but well worth the effort to learn.

The author of ColorPerfect is also very responsive over email.
 
I'm right there with you. I use Vuescan, try to lock film base, scan negative RAW, even tried ColorPerfect, but the results were just bad for the Portra I shot.
 
If you are having trouble, ColorPerfect (and maybe VueScan?) has a function to take a picture of a reflective IT8 target to profile your film/scanner combo. They can be had inexpensively here. Once your film is profiled, the only thing you have to do for good color is take a picture of a grey card in different lighting situations for accurate white balance.

-Greg
 
I scan with my Epson V700 and Silverfast, which was included. Its film type presets give me pretty good results, that only need slight adjustments in LR or PS after scanning.
 
I use Plustek 7600 with Vuescan I scan in raw mode using 3600 dpi which gives 16 mega pixel images or ~ 4900 X 3300. Once you have saved the raw file you can virtually re-scan the file (not the negative) and output it any number of ways using Vuescan's various modes.

Here's what I do with negatives.

* Output as TIFF DNG Format
* Virtual file scan with IR and Grain filters off
* For ISO 400 film, I find using no IR or grain filters slightly increases sharpness but does not improve grain. IR filters may help very dirty, damaged negatives.
* 7200 dpi does not increase detail
* 3 Multi Passes seems to help with grain
* WB
* Use manual mode
* Set Histogram to Log mode
* Adjust Natural RGB and RGB Brightness sliders such that the RGB curves interact at the same point (or overlap) on both edges of the histogram.

Recently I switched to using Photoshop CC to adjust WB with uncorrected Vuescan TIFFs. I'm sure this works with other PS versions as well. Anyway, this method is the best I've found so far.

* DO not make any color temperature or other adjustments in Vuescan.
* Open the Tiff in PS and invert the negative.
* Create a curves layer.
* Go to the red channel and alt-click on the black slider and move it until it just starts to clip or slightly before that. Do the same for the white slider.
* Then do this with all the other channels.
* The center adjustment slider below the histogram controls contrast. This can be useful for some images.

This method gives me a white balance that is very close. I do color adjustments in LR 5. If the white balance seems off, I start over and pick slightly different clipping points. But usually I back off to just before I see clipping. The Hue/Saturation/Luminance sliders are very useful to achieve the a color rendering you like.

Finally, if the scene was lit by light sources with very different color temperatures there can't be a single color temperature for the entire image. In this case you have to apply selective color temperature parameters. I do this with the LR 5 adjustment brush. There are many other methods though including layer blending in PS or similar programs.
 
Vuescan and V700 gives me results I'm happy with. If it's just the colour you don't like, open it up into a graphics program and play with the colours until you are. I seem to be lucky in that they come out of Vuescan as I want them.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. I downloaded a demo of ColorPerfect and Vuescan and was playing with it a bit...still not getting what I want. I was following this tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfQ61WTbug&noredirect=1

Previously, I was using EpsonScan with my V500 and it was really hit or miss. Sometimes it would give me a scan that was PERFECT. Color, exposure, everything. Bot more often than not, the result would be less than satisfactory.

One such "perfect" scan I got from Epsonscan I re-scanned using Vuescan + Colorperfect, and the Epsonscan version was much better than the V + CP version.

I guess I'll have to keep experimenting...
 
For 35 I use a nikon 5000 ED and I am satisfied with the Nikonscan sw, color and exposure are not bad at all. For 120 films, negative I have an Epson V 600 and the epson sw is IMO satisfactory. I have Vuescan pro version as well but I am not able to get satsfactory colors out of it as I am with the epson sw. I know about color perfect etc. And I will try it, but asking myself why the vuescan colors are so different than the ones I get from the other sw. Just my experience....not enough probably!
Robert
 
I tried again over the weekend with some other film I had (Kodak Gold 200) and ColorPerfect worked a lot better. Starting to think that the Portra I was dealing with was:

a) Too expired (though it was only a year or two out of date, perhaps exposed to heat at some point?), or,
b) The lab processed it poorly.
 
I struggled scanning color negatives until I got my LS-8000. I was using vuescan and always had to correct the colors manually with still very inconsistent results (especially Ektar100 with greenish sky, blue shadows and overly saturated red). I used a V500 and a Plustek 8200. I often had to use photoshop to correct the colors post scan.
Since I got the Nikon LS-8000 i get the colors where I want them with Vuescan set to auto and only rarely have to use any other tool for color correction. Also the Canon FS4000 gave me very good results and needed only a bit of correction in the blue channel in 20% of the scans.

My setting for the Canon and Nikon with 35mm are like this

Crop Size: Maximum (you can use Auto here but I rather crop in Aperture)
Border: 0 (if you use auto crop size I'd add some border)
Buffer: 10 (10% to not use the white space around the actual frame for color calculations)

Color Balance: Auto Levels
White Point and Black Point to 0.02 (0% doesn't work so well)
leaving all other settings in default
(0.25 and 0.75 for the curve and 1 for the brightness values)

I don't lock the film base or exposure. I found it makes the results only slightly more consistent but takes a lot of time.
With my previous scanners I sometimes had to set the white point to a value over 1% or even up to 5% to get the color to act as wanted but then I got already noticeable clippings in the highlight. I went back to 0 point something and rather corrected in PS.
 
PatrickT said:
Thanks for the replies everyone. I downloaded a demo of ColorPerfect and Vuescan and was playing with it a bit...still not getting what I want. I was following this tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfQ61WTbug&noredirect=1

Previously, I was using EpsonScan with my V500 and it was really hit or miss. Sometimes it would give me a scan that was PERFECT. Color, exposure, everything. Bot more often than not, the result would be less than satisfactory.

One such "perfect" scan I got from Epsonscan I re-scanned using Vuescan + Colorperfect, and the Epsonscan version was much better than the V + CP version.

I guess I'll have to keep experimenting...
Click to expand...

I made that tutorial. What questions do you have re: Vuescan and ColorPerfect?
 
edge100 said:
I made that tutorial. What questions do you have re: Vuescan and ColorPerfect?
Click to expand...

First of all...great tutorial, thanks for doing it. You really did a great job of explaining what was going on.

However, I attempted to follow your instructions to a T and I'm just not getting what I would expect. Perhaps my negatives weren't exposed as I thought, or they weren't processed well, but the colors still seem a bit "off". In addition, the files also seem WAY under-exposed and bringing them back up in lightroom seems to mess them up a bit.

I can have some examples when I get home tonight, as it's hard to describe otherwise.

Like I said, it could be the fault of the negatives, or the fact that I'm still doing something incorrectly. Either way I think I need more practice with it!
 
PatrickT said:
First of all...great tutorial, thanks for doing it. You really did a great job of explaining what was going on.

However, I attempted to follow your instructions to a T and I'm just not getting what I would expect. Perhaps my negatives weren't exposed as I thought, or they weren't processed well, but the colors still seem a bit "off". In addition, the files also seem WAY under-exposed and bringing them back up in lightroom seems to mess them up a bit.

I can have some examples when I get home tonight, as it's hard to describe otherwise.

Like I said, it could be the fault of the negatives, or the fact that I'm still doing something incorrectly. Either way I think I need more practice with it!
Click to expand...

Thanks.

A few points:

1. You really do have to start with a reasonably-well exposed negative. By that I mainly mean not underexposed, which will really mess with your colour balance to the point where no decent recovery is possible (best to just convert these to B&W). Overexposure is less of a problem, but at a certain point, you will start to clip the individual colour channels (first B, then G, then R).

2. The Vuescan linear neg will be substantially 'underexposed', but this isn't because it's not scanning properly. Rather, it's because no gamma has been applied to the file yet (i.e. input = output). ColorPerfect will help with this, but I still find that I usually have to adjust the RGB curve in Lightroom (I should perhaps update the tutorial with some additional post tips).

3. You always have the flexibility to modify the colour to your taste using the 'Ring Around' tool in CP. This will let you see, in real time, the effects of adjusting the colour. You can get it 90% of the way there (or more) in CP, and then just do minor adjustments in LR/PS. This is useful if, for example, you don't have a neutral object in your image (which is used in my tutorial to balance out the colours).
 
edge100 said:
I made that tutorial. What questions do you have re: Vuescan and ColorPerfect?
Click to expand...

Wow, I watched that video a few days ago and it really helped a lot. Especially about Vuescan and creating a linear RAW negative. Thanks a lot for creating it. Who would've thought it was a fellow Torontoian!
 
CliveC said:
Wow, I watched that video a few days ago and it really helped a lot. Especially about Vuescan and creating a linear RAW negative. Thanks a lot for creating it. Who would've thought it was a fellow Torontoian!
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I'm surprised you couldn't tell by the accent? I've been told the "a-boot" gives it away. If I'd said "Trono", then you'd know for sure.
 
edge100 said:
Thanks.

A few points:

1. You really do have to start with a reasonably-well exposed negative. By that I mainly mean not underexposed, which will really mess with your colour balance to the point where no decent recovery is possible (best to just convert these to B&W). Overexposure is less of a problem, but at a certain point, you will start to clip the individual colour channels (first B, then G, then R).

2. The Vuescan linear neg will be substantially 'underexposed', but this isn't because it's not scanning properly. Rather, it's because no gamma has been applied to the file yet (i.e. input = output). ColorPerfect will help with this, but I still find that I usually have to adjust the RGB curve in Lightroom (I should perhaps update the tutorial with some additional post tips).

3. You always have the flexibility to modify the colour to your taste using the 'Ring Around' tool in CP. This will let you see, in real time, the effects of adjusting the colour. You can get it 90% of the way there (or more) in CP, and then just do minor adjustments in LR/PS. This is useful if, for example, you don't have a neutral object in your image (which is used in my tutorial to balance out the colours).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips. It doesn't help that I find CP almost impossible to understand, aside from the most basic things. In fact, none of the scanning software is well designed...I wonder why that is?

Anyway, I'll play with it some more tonight and perhaps throw up a few sample scans on here to show what I'm talking about.

Thanks!
 
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