How long until a Chinese company makes a digital rangefinder?

[Pál_K]

Just my opinion, but I think Leica has gone as far as it can with digital M’s. My prediction is that they’ll make a digital Barnack camera and it will sell. The Chinese could do it as well, but I think only the Leica brand has enough appeal to generate the sales to cover the cost of development and make a profit.

 

[santino]

Please don't hesitate to explain what that means. I for one don't have a clue. Cheers, OtL

Sure. It is state capitalism with a framework of Communist party rule.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Sure. It is state capitalism with a framework of Communist party rule.

I still have no idea what that means. Don't hesitate to enlighten us, especially with regard to small companies like TTArtisan, Seagull, LLL, etc... Cheers, OtL

 

[santino]

Look it up yourself if you are interested.

Cheers.

 

[jsrockit]

Just my opinion, but I think Leica has gone as far as it can with digital M’s. My prediction is that they’ll make a digital Barnack camera and it will sell. The Chinese could do it as well, but I think only the Leica brand has enough appeal to generate the sales to cover the cost of development and make a profit.

I think they tried the digital Barack with the CL digital no?

 

[Pál_K]

I think they tried the digital Barack with the CL digital no?

I think they missed the “Barnack experience“ with that. Fuji X100 versions did a better job for much less money. What Leica offered was just another small digital camera.

What they need is a small rangefinder, full-frame, a shutter speed dial, manual controls like an X100V.

 

[Rayt]

What is th

I think they tried the digital Barack with the CL digital no?

A digital Barack would give me Hope. 🙂

 

[jsrockit]

I think they missed the “Barnack experience“ with that. Fuji X100 versions did a better job for much less money. What Leica offered was just another small digital camera.

What they need is a small rangefinder, full-frame, a shutter speed dial, manual controls like an X100V.

Well...it is clear what Leica was thinking...

I am not sure how you think the X100 is Barack like at all (and I am a Fuji lover). What you described is the Leica M11. If you expect smaller, Leica has already said they cannot make the M11 smaller and fit everything people want. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it, but I doubt it.

 

[Pál_K]

Well...it is clear what Leica was thinking...

I am not sure how you think the X100 is Barack like at all (and I am a Fuji lover). …

Oh, all I meant was that the Leica CL was APS-C and so they were competing with cameras like the X-100 variants which offered potential buyers traditional controls and modes from fully manual to fully automated.

 

[Godfrey]

But this is precisely the problem potential (or, in this case, actual) rangefinder manufacturers have: how do you make a camera that can compete in a marketplace with high-quality old ones that are usually still serviceable? This is very much the case with film (look at how many people kept on buying and using M2s or IIIfs instead of picking up brand new Voigtlander Bessas), but it's still relevant with digital bodies.
...

No camera manufacturers make a dime from the sale of used equipment, which in practice means that the community of people who weigh the pros and cons between buying an older used but still serviceable camera and the community of people who will only buy a new camera are, in essence, two separate audiences for photographic equipment.

I know people who will not buy a film camera now because what they want in a film camera isn't available any more in a NEW film camera. They don't even consider buying a used camera.

We must always remember as we opine about this or that equipment that the representation of the audience on all the photographic forums combined does not amount to more than a few percentage points of the total camera equipment buying audience, and that the vast, vast majority of that total audience has never ever bought a used camera. Used equipment sells mostly to the camera enthusiast community, not the people who pay the bills at the camera equipment manufacturers, in general.

G

 

[Godfrey]

Oh, all I meant was that the Leica CL was APS-C and so they were competing with cameras like the X-100 variants which offered potential buyers traditional controls and modes from fully manual to fully automated.

It's pretty clear to me that the choice of APS-C sensor in the Leica CL was intended entirely and specifically to keep the price down to a "Leica reasonable" level, since the FF Leica sensor is typically the most expensive single component in a Leica digital camera.

G

 

[former member]

High performance sensors are expensive. The KAF-18500 CCD used in the M9 was $4500 on Digi-Key.

KAF-18500-NXA-JH-AE-08 | Digi-Key Electronics

Order today, ships today. KAF-18500-NXA-JH-AE-08 – CCD Image Sensor 5270H x 3516V 6.8µm x 6.8µm 48-PGA (48.1x34.1) from onsemi. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.

www.digikey.com

You can still download the Data Sheets. Also shown is the EOL date set by the manufacturer,

 

[jsrockit]

No camera manufacturers make a dime from the sale of used equipment

Leica sells used Leica. Leica Camera Pre-Owned & Used Products: | Leica Camera AG

 

[dct]

We must always remember as we opine about this or that equipment that the representation of the audience on all the photographic forums combined does not amount to more than a few percentage points of the total camera equipment buying audience, and that the vast, vast majority of that total audience has never ever bought a used camera. Used equipment sells mostly to the camera enthusiast community, not the people who pay the bills at the camera equipment manufacturers, in general.

This. We should remember every each day we discuss such topics, that we (here at RFF specifically) are a niche in a niche of a niche market segment.
No founded marketing decision will care about us. I realized this years ago when Contax G and Konica Hexar where gone forever. How I remember the long debates why it makes sense to keep film and specifically these devices up and running! 🙂

Today I still enjoy the speculation on new emerging ideas around RF cameras, of course. And I'm pretty astonished when something like a Pixii comes unexpectedly along the market! 😳 👍

 

[Godfrey]

Leica sells used Leica. Leica Camera Pre-Owned & Used Products: | Leica Camera AG

Yes, yes... but irrelevant. Apple does the same with reconditioned systems ... the amount of profit involved is inconsequential because the volume of such sales is trivial; the real value of such efforts is marketing appreciation.

G

 

[raydm6]

Leica sells used Leica. Leica Camera Pre-Owned & Used Products: | Leica Camera AG

Yes I believe it was the old Leicashop.

Leica Camera + Leica Classic = Leicashop

I was browsing Leica's website and came across a link to Leica Pre-Owned. Further down, there's a link to Leica Classic Online Store. Opening the link brings you to Leicashop Classic. I don't remember seeing this: Leica purchased ~75% share in Leica Shop in Vienna, Austria. Here's the press...

rangefinderforum.com

 

[jsrockit]

Yes it was raydm6. Well, I am selling all of my rangefinder stuff... the M240 and the Bessa R2 with a few lenses. I have to say I just prefer autofocus and mirrorless these days. I had to try one more time. I had the Bessa for a few years, but had to be honest with myself that I just am not going to use 35mm film. If I do again, it will be medium format. The M240 was nice, but I found myself using (and enjoying) my other cameras more to my surprise. Therefore, I am no longer interested in the Chinese rangefinder either.

 

[splitimageview]

A digital Barack would give me Hope. 🙂

I see what you did there. 😛

 

[boojum]

Yes it was raydm6. Well, I am selling all of my rangefinder stuff... the M240 and the Bessa R2 with a few lenses. I have to say I just prefer autofocus and mirrorless these days. I had to try one more time. I had the Bessa for a few years, but had to be honest with myself that I just am not going to use 35mm film. If I do again, it will be medium format. The M240 was nice, but I found myself using (and enjoying) my other cameras more to my surprise. Therefore, I am no longer interested in the Chinese rangefinder either.

I understand. Autofocus and possibly IBIS are wonderful. And if you ever get the yen for a little pain many autofocus have a manual override.

 

[TL7]

Is Pixii the only camera company in the world...that doesnt make the commitment or take the time...to build or design..their own..lenses..?