Philip Whiteman
Well-known
The title is tongue in cheek, but based on my own Kiev and Contax voyage of discovery over the first three months of 2017. It started when my son Will, knowing I was 'Kiev curious' presented me on Christmas Day with a 1981 4M. Once I learned how to hold it properly, I realized that it was fully functional (yes; I did start with one finger over the rangefinder window).
However, while the first film revealed quite how good the Heliar 103 f1.8 53mm lens is, it also revealed a light leak (cue a visit to the Kiev Survivors site...) On a trip to Copenhagen problem no.2 with camera no.1 manifested itself: in cold weather, horrible grinding noises from inside and overlapping frames. I may have fixed these things - there's now a test film in the camera - but in the meantime Kiev no.2 found a home with me.
No.2, a 1978 4, was liberated from the local camera store for £25 because they weren't entirely sure it was working and it was missing its take-up spool.
Before a replacement spool arrived from Ukraine, the same store - perhaps now sensing they had an an addict, or at least a glutton for punishment on the premises - sold me the broken 1939 Contax II whose take-up spool I had asked to borrow for the second Kiev. It came with a collapsible 2/50 Sonnar they had already loaned me to try on Kiev no.1.
While I took the Contax apart with an idea of replacing the broken shutter ribbons and freeing up the frozen-solid focus mount - a saga that drove me close to madness - I discovered that Kiev 4 no.2 (stay with me) also had light leaks. Argh!
As if two problematic Kiev 4s and a broken Contax II were not enough, an eBay seller in Hungary was offering temptation in the form of a 1953 Kiev 2 in mint condition, with pristine ever-ready case, original box... and, as he honestly described it, a sluggish shutter. Had to have it, didn't I! And if the Contax's shutter proved impossible to repair, perhaps I could swap over... (Don't go there, I hear you chorus)
So now I have four Kiev and Contax cameras: a 4M that, now I have had it apart and added some light sealing around the shutter crate, may now be light tight, but still feels like a pepper grinder when you wind the shutter; a 4 that feels much smoother and may also now be light tight with even more sealing added; a Contax II that I did get working without substituting a Kiev shutter, but remains untested; and a Kiev 2 that is absolutely pristine but needs some attention to the shutter.
Apart from the nightmare of tensioning the Contax shutter - something I will describe elsewhere - this whole adventure has been hugely enjoyable without being at expensive (the Contax came in at £30 - perhaps £50 in total if you count new silk shutter ribbon from Japan and pricey watch oil and other sundries - and only the Kiev 2 approached the £100 barrier). Working or not, I love these cameras for their design and historical significance.
I have also have in my own hands the evidence that it is true: a 1950s Kiev is just as beautifully made as a prewar Contax (in fact, the Soviet chrome plating actually looks better than the German original).
It is also true that the decline in quality of Kievs - startlingly apparent when you expose the works inside - is also evident.
Neither of the first two Kievs was working properly when I got them, and for a different reason (I think the shutter tension has gone) nor was the third. So I am still wondering; How many Kievs do you have to buy before you get one that works!
However, while the first film revealed quite how good the Heliar 103 f1.8 53mm lens is, it also revealed a light leak (cue a visit to the Kiev Survivors site...) On a trip to Copenhagen problem no.2 with camera no.1 manifested itself: in cold weather, horrible grinding noises from inside and overlapping frames. I may have fixed these things - there's now a test film in the camera - but in the meantime Kiev no.2 found a home with me.
No.2, a 1978 4, was liberated from the local camera store for £25 because they weren't entirely sure it was working and it was missing its take-up spool.
Before a replacement spool arrived from Ukraine, the same store - perhaps now sensing they had an an addict, or at least a glutton for punishment on the premises - sold me the broken 1939 Contax II whose take-up spool I had asked to borrow for the second Kiev. It came with a collapsible 2/50 Sonnar they had already loaned me to try on Kiev no.1.
While I took the Contax apart with an idea of replacing the broken shutter ribbons and freeing up the frozen-solid focus mount - a saga that drove me close to madness - I discovered that Kiev 4 no.2 (stay with me) also had light leaks. Argh!
As if two problematic Kiev 4s and a broken Contax II were not enough, an eBay seller in Hungary was offering temptation in the form of a 1953 Kiev 2 in mint condition, with pristine ever-ready case, original box... and, as he honestly described it, a sluggish shutter. Had to have it, didn't I! And if the Contax's shutter proved impossible to repair, perhaps I could swap over... (Don't go there, I hear you chorus)
So now I have four Kiev and Contax cameras: a 4M that, now I have had it apart and added some light sealing around the shutter crate, may now be light tight, but still feels like a pepper grinder when you wind the shutter; a 4 that feels much smoother and may also now be light tight with even more sealing added; a Contax II that I did get working without substituting a Kiev shutter, but remains untested; and a Kiev 2 that is absolutely pristine but needs some attention to the shutter.
Apart from the nightmare of tensioning the Contax shutter - something I will describe elsewhere - this whole adventure has been hugely enjoyable without being at expensive (the Contax came in at £30 - perhaps £50 in total if you count new silk shutter ribbon from Japan and pricey watch oil and other sundries - and only the Kiev 2 approached the £100 barrier). Working or not, I love these cameras for their design and historical significance.
I have also have in my own hands the evidence that it is true: a 1950s Kiev is just as beautifully made as a prewar Contax (in fact, the Soviet chrome plating actually looks better than the German original).
It is also true that the decline in quality of Kievs - startlingly apparent when you expose the works inside - is also evident.
Neither of the first two Kievs was working properly when I got them, and for a different reason (I think the shutter tension has gone) nor was the third. So I am still wondering; How many Kievs do you have to buy before you get one that works!
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
Success on first purchase. A 1969 Kiev-4a, the only problem is the B speed sometimes don't fire. I don't use B speed anyway.
I tinkered all my KIEV-4a, including changing shutter ribbon (if it was broken), re-installing light seal, and making upgraded spool.
Bought a 1980s 4a for fun, the quality is really two steps down in comparison with 1960s ones.
One of my 4a, from 1969, with uncommon Arsenal version Jupiter-12. It looks so new...
With Helios-103
With Jupiter-8M, 1/5s handheld,
I tinkered all my KIEV-4a, including changing shutter ribbon (if it was broken), re-installing light seal, and making upgraded spool.
Bought a 1980s 4a for fun, the quality is really two steps down in comparison with 1960s ones.
One of my 4a, from 1969, with uncommon Arsenal version Jupiter-12. It looks so new...
With Helios-103
With Jupiter-8M, 1/5s handheld,
agfa100
Well-known
Well I have 4 now they all work, the only problem was one had a very loose back and I found a guy who sold kiev's and I told him I was looking for a replacement back and he sent me a whole camera for a very low price 12/15 dollars and he told me he was not sure about the camera but it had a back. Well the camera worked out fine. I was so happy with the lenses I got one of those Kiev/Contax adp. to Leica M and use all my Kiev lenses on the Ricoh GXR with the M adp.
And yes my Kiev 2 is the best of the batch, I had always wanted a Real Contax but I thought the prices were always too high. How digital has changed everything.
wbill
And yes my Kiev 2 is the best of the batch, I had always wanted a Real Contax but I thought the prices were always too high. How digital has changed everything.
wbill
summar
Well-known
I was lucky. My 1977 4A worked well from the start (no light leaks) and is still OK years later. However -- I did buy it from a good dealer who had a CLA done before he sold it. The Helios 103 is a fine lens.
For me, three!
Originally got a model 4 (with selenium meter on top) #7703213. Ran a roll of Kodak 200 through it finding a light leak in the back, inaccurate meter underexposing a couple stops, otherwise seemed to work fine. Sent back.
Replacement model 4a serial number 7630314, with Jupiter-8M 53mm f/2 #7671037, it too had the same light leaks, plus very inconsistent frame spacing apparently linked to inconsistent wind knob rotation, landing on different shutter speed settings. Sent back.
Second replacement 4a arrived complete with strips of test negs and color prints demonstrating proper operation! Thank you, Fedka. The top shutter speed is marked 1250, whereas the other two (made later) had 1000. Still the Jupiter 8M but marked 50mm instead of the others 53mm.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Reminds me of the tootsie pop ad from my childhood.
popavvakum
Member
Out of two broken Kiev's sold for spares on E-bay, I have managed to produce one not only fully functional but even very pleasant to use. Regrettably, the second one has a well and truly dead shutter with quite a few screws with knackered threads and the lever switching between the groups of exposures worn at an angle and catching the shutter frame when moving. I think the wrongly positioned lever can only be the original assembly problem, so it was like that since 1978 when it left the factory and then whoever tried to repair it went hard on tiny screws...
In the one I am actually regularly using, I had to deal with stuck shutter, stiff winding (giving awful interframe spacing), broken self-timer and dead light meter. That was all. I would not have been able to repair the camera without a downloaded repair guide in Russian and my fluency in Russian.
In the one I am actually regularly using, I had to deal with stuck shutter, stiff winding (giving awful interframe spacing), broken self-timer and dead light meter. That was all. I would not have been able to repair the camera without a downloaded repair guide in Russian and my fluency in Russian.
Dogman
Veteran
Sorry for your bad luck, Philip. I bought 4 Kievs several years ago during a period of infatuation with the design. The cameras and the lenses were all cheap and fun to play with. Every one of them worked fine at the time of purchase and were still working fine the last time I played with them.
It is possible, maybe even likely, that the seemingly inexhaustible supply of dependable Kievs has dwindled over the years.
It is possible, maybe even likely, that the seemingly inexhaustible supply of dependable Kievs has dwindled over the years.
Spanik
Well-known
Just one. Got it from a neighbour that took it around a good part of the world and it still works. Even with a few dents.
Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
My own experience is that you may never get a post-1960 Kiev that is reliable.
I worked my way through six of these (all from FSU and all inexpensive or I would never have purchased so many).
All had unreliable shutters. This included one or two that I sent to Oleg for service. They managed to fail at inconvenient times in the field, always with shutter malfunctions.
A real shame, IMHO. I like the ergometrics of the Kievs and the lenses are quite good. Unhappily, I have little use for a camera that fails when I need it.
I worked my way through six of these (all from FSU and all inexpensive or I would never have purchased so many).
All had unreliable shutters. This included one or two that I sent to Oleg for service. They managed to fail at inconvenient times in the field, always with shutter malfunctions.
A real shame, IMHO. I like the ergometrics of the Kievs and the lenses are quite good. Unhappily, I have little use for a camera that fails when I need it.
My meterless Kiev 4 series was a $10 purchase from a recycling shop wth a broken locking clip for the back. A frend gave me the one from his spares camera and I was off. After several films one of the ribbons went. I liked the results from it when it was working and maybe I will get around to replacing the ribbons one day, but I prefer to use a Contax II. After you've cleaned the mechanism and replaced the ribbons, a decent example of one will work, and work well. Often the RF calibration will still be perfect eight decades later!
I find replacing the ribbons tedious but not especially difficult. Dedicating a driver tip shaped to fit the slot in the spring adjustment screw really well is a good idea (it's a short slot in a small screw head, but quite broad for its length). This helps stop the driver slipping out of the slot as you are setting the spring tension. If you have got your Contax working now, personally, I would concentrate on that.
Cheers,
Brett
I find replacing the ribbons tedious but not especially difficult. Dedicating a driver tip shaped to fit the slot in the spring adjustment screw really well is a good idea (it's a short slot in a small screw head, but quite broad for its length). This helps stop the driver slipping out of the slot as you are setting the spring tension. If you have got your Contax working now, personally, I would concentrate on that.
Cheers,
Brett
farlymac
PF McFarland
Went through a similar experience with FED 2's. And a couple of them had been "repaired" before I got them.
PF
PF
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
My first one was 4AM. I fixed all light leaks on it and sold it within two hours it was on Kijiji. I shouldn't sell it...
Second was 4. And it was great for two rolls. But ribbons were rotten. I realised what I can't fix it and let it go. It was mistake, better was to send it for service.
Now I have 2 and it came from RFF member, it was working fine, but I send it for service and now it has slightly uneven frames spacing.
To me Keiv rangefinder means :bang:
Second was 4. And it was great for two rolls. But ribbons were rotten. I realised what I can't fix it and let it go. It was mistake, better was to send it for service.
Now I have 2 and it came from RFF member, it was working fine, but I send it for service and now it has slightly uneven frames spacing.
To me Keiv rangefinder means :bang:
Spider67
Well-known
2.... My brother bought me a new 4 AM in Bulgaria in the eighties. "What do you want with that Piece of ....?" he asked me. It cost 60 Leva (the monthly salary was about two hundred leva, many pensioners had to make do with 120 a month). Well I had to have it ClAed several times and it still developed new quirks. Then I bought a 4A from the early sixties from a Forum member and I saw the differences when I saw them one beside the other . The new old Kiev had an engraving on the base plate. It had been a special gift to a Russian soccer player. The curios Thing is that both the sellers Family name and mine mean "Spider".
Ater that I ha dto have a Kiev 5. I had read about it in a Journal where it was described as a prototype that had never been produced. And finally I bought a Contax IIa from another member. Its fráme counteer does not work, but it's a very fine camera I like to take out often.
Ater that I ha dto have a Kiev 5. I had read about it in a Journal where it was described as a prototype that had never been produced. And finally I bought a Contax IIa from another member. Its fráme counteer does not work, but it's a very fine camera I like to take out often.
biomed
Veteran
First one worked well. I never could get along with the ergonomics so I traded it for some other gear.
yanchep_mike
Always Trying
Only one, worked a treat, got it from Fedka, always great service.
DanskDynamit
Well-known
just one.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hmmm, so - in a nutshell - they are no different from any other old camera bought second-hand...
Regards, David
Regards, David
wolves3012
Veteran
My dad bought a Kiev 4 in 1975, which I inherited. The meter no longer works properly but the shutter does. Since I'm not a big fan of the styling of the Kiev 4, I bought a 4A off Ebay some years ago (a 1978 model). That also works just fine, although I have lubricated the winder gear-train. So, no failures here (yet) but only 2 of them isn't very representative.
X
xavyr
Guest
Get 'er fixed right -
http://okvintagecamera.com/
Repair prices are excellent. Transit time to the US via mail were just 2.5 weeks for moi.
http://okvintagecamera.com/
Repair prices are excellent. Transit time to the US via mail were just 2.5 weeks for moi.