How many M8's Exhibit Banding Problems? (>1250)

[ali_baba]

Greetings,

I'm at my wit's end.
I'm on my, I don't know, 8.9.10th? M8.
(I use a pair)
I have just received 2 new bodies from leica for my woes,
both of these bodies are exhibiting banding now.

Has anyone actually found an m8 that works?
I shoot music, so my lighting conditions are always changing, and sometimes directly into the lens (onto the sensor, which i dont think it likes)

anyhow ... talk to me -- who actually has an m8 that works and they have tested in rugged lighting environments.

Thanks! I don't want to start using DSLR's, they make the images look like...well you know the deal...

 

[Patman]

I have had no trouble with banding in fact I've had no trouble with anything. I've shot images from 160 to 2500 and have been very pleased. It's also very rare that I use a filter, I only have one for the 21mm and have made testes with my other lenses without them and feel I have no need for them. Hope you have some better luck, maybe try taking the filters off.

 

[ali_baba]

I suppose this is just bad timing.

Christian is the one who makes things happen. We've spoken, he was the one to give me two brand new m8's. However Christian left for germany (photokina) right before my camera's were sent out. He understood that I need these for work, and made moves for me. So since he's gone until the 1st, and I need my bodies for a big gig on the 2nd I'm in a bind.

We'll see what happens. They have told me that 1% image failure is acceptable. Not christian, but another nameless person. that is laughable. now after that 1% first shoot I have say 70%+ banding etc.

yeah. pleased isnt the word.
i'm glad to see that you have found your replacement to work well. I wish i was so lucky. I'm sure things will work out, it's just bad because I need these bodies functioning as they should, perfectly.

yeah...i could post more sample images...but you know what they look like.

 

[tmfabian]

all digital sensors exhibit banding noise given the proper conditions. However there are things you can do to reduce it. Improperly exposed shadow areas are where banding occurs on most digital cameras i've seen, so the solution is either more precise exposure or drop some shadow detail in post processing(these are just general tips, not saying anything about your exposure technique since I have no image to see).

If you could post some images with some exposure data though it would help us help you much more...and who knows...it could be just plain bad luck with bad sensors.

 

[ali_baba]

yeah, you're right - it does exhibit banding in bad exposures more so than good ones, but still. i think it should be dead pixel and banding free. i'll have some images up in a moment, as soon as they're hosted...

 

[tmfabian]

yeah, you're right - it does exhibit banding in bad exposures more so than good ones, but still. i think it should be dead pixel and banding free. i'll have some images up in a moment, as soon as they're hosted...

oh, trust me I agree with you that sensors should be banding noise free, the problem is that the technology isn't there 100% yet. Some manufacturers have figured out ways to cleverly reduce it with algorithms (capture one pro has banding noise suppression in it's noise reduction area...that alone should say it's a problem with more than just the m8's sensor) Banding noise is just something where digital blows chunks (trust me I'm not bashing digital, just a limitation) and I've seen it from all digital sensors, from my iphone to the wifes 1ds mkIII (which for 3 grand more than an m8 should be better at it, but it's not)

Oh...it's also much much MUCH worse in cases where a light source is predominately one color (red, green, or blue) and seems to stem from the fact that ccd and cmos sensors aren't quite as swank as those foveon sensors (sorry, I just woke up, my brain isn't quite capable yet of forming proper sentences or thoughts 🙂 )


btw...your flickr shots are amazing.

 

[ali_baba]

i tried to highlight these things in photoshop.
but i think the stronger colors make it so one can't see the issues,
but trust me - in aperture - with a loupe they're clear, well they're clear on a big screen regardless...

thanks

 

[tmfabian]

i tried to highlight these things in photoshop.
but i think the stronger colors make it so one can't see the issues,
but trust me - in aperture - with a loupe they're clear, well they're clear on a big screen regardless...

thanks

send them back. this is why i wanted a picture, i thought it was just lousy noise performance (i thought you were talking about banding noise)...it's not, those be some funky pixels...i am however curious as to why those wouldn't show up in lower ISO's though...hmm I'd just send them back one at a time. (I certainly would if i had red and green arrows showing up on my sensor 🙂 )


i hope they resolve this issue for you...some people may not notice that or claim it's a minor annoyance, but that banding is pretty bogus...i certainly wouldn't settle for it...Though I have to ask you one other thing...have you updated to the latest firmware? I could be very wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that updated firmware fixed some of this problem...and just so you know not all m8's are bad...mine does not have this problem...either way I hope you get it fixed.

 

[Tuolumne]

Is the banding always in the same place? Looks more like rows of questionable pixels than banding to me. That would certainly explain why it happens more at higher ISOs - more amplification of the noisy signal.

/T

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Hardly ever an issue here. RF interference is often a culprit, when it happens. I guess all that metal acts as a magnifying antenna. Problem is, if Leica changed the body from metal to a higher-percentage magnesium alloy or (g@wd forbid) "plastic" (let's leave it at that oversimplification), bashers and lovers alike would cry bloody red-dot murder.

i sent it to leicausa (after a very lukewarm reception from the orginal dealer) and there it languished for months with the unanswered phone calls and unreturned emails piling up.

Leica NJ is the slowest, nonresponsive, chaotic office I've ever dealt with when it comes to customer service. There are very good and attentive, knowledgeable people there, but until they deal with the bad apples which are at the front line, they'll still be subpar when it comes to customer service.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

i tried to highlight these things in photoshop.
but i think the stronger colors make it so one can't see the issues,
but trust me - in aperture - with a loupe they're clear, well they're clear on a big screen regardless...

After looking at your photos, here's my theory: you got a hand-me-down faulty M8. This is a well-documented hardware issue with the first batch M8s. It will need to go back to (are you sitting down?) Solms. Contact them first before sending it. But send it to them directly. Leica NJ will sit on it (I taped a detailed letter explaining what to do, and they wasted two weeks trying to figure out what I wanted them to do, until I pointed out --not knowing that that wasn't a redundancy after having contacted them first-- that my explicit requests were on a letter taped to the camera ("oh. OH! I see it now.") sheez.

This is one of the problems with retailers who accept returns with no questions asked, they don't inspect the return beyond the packaging, and put it back in the market. I suspect you're experiencing a symptom of that hands-off approach.

 

[eleskin]

I used to have a light colored vertical band on the left side of my sensor at higher ISO settings. After a few firmware updates, the problem was gone.

 

[ERV]

I uploaded firmware 2.0 and still have a center banding issue at asa 2500.
I called Leica NJ today and will send it back and have upgrades done at the same time.
They gave me a date at the end of Nov!
Wish me luck- they will probably do the upgrades and forget about the center band.
This a jpeg fine at asa 2500, all natural light.
The jpeg-high asa quality is much improved with 2.0, which makes me want to use it more often.

 

[tmfabian]

are they paying for the upgrades or are you? because if they're hooking it up like that, i need to find a way to get my m8 to have problems. 😀

I uploaded firmware 2.0 and still have a center banding issue at asa 2500.
I called Leica NJ today and will send it back and have upgrades done at the same time.
They gave me a date at the end of Nov!
Wish me luck- they will probably do the upgrades and forget about the center band.
This a jpeg fine at asa 2500, all natural light.
The jpeg-high asa quality is much improved with 2.0, which makes me want to use it more often.

 

[ERV]

are they paying for the upgrades or are you? because if they're hooking it up like that, i need to find a way to get my m8 to have problems. 😀

I'm paying for the upgrades.
What is a drag is the upgrade schedule is taking precedent and not the repair.
In other words, they should have said send it in for repair and we'll do the upgrade rather than here is your upgrade date of late November and we'll do the repair when we have it. After all, it is defective.