How many of you will buy the M8 or Digital M

[John Camp]

"I played with a D200 a couple days ago. What a nice camera. Never thought I'd say that."

Nikons *are* nice cameras. My son has a Canon 1Ds that I've handled, and while Canon certainly has been at the forefront of technical inovation -- image stabilization, 35mm-format digital, etc. -- they have never done the ergonomics as well as Nikon, IMHO. Handling a Nikon is like handling a Leica; everything just sems to fall under your fingers, and you get the impression that the Nikon people spend a lot of time worrying about it. If I couldn't afford to get a Leica for the kind of moving, urban photography that I've been doing, I'd get a D200. I've got a D2x but it's too big; a D200 strikes me as about as good ergonomically as an SLR is going to get.

JC

 

[jaapv]

I hope you are joking. I can't believe your not. I agree that 10x 8 large negs are wonderful. But you have to agree that some of the greatest images shot, and for that matter probably the majority have been shot on 35mm film. I had a epithany a few years back and realised that the actual camera and format wasn't really that important. It was the eye of the photographer and their personal vision.

He aint jokin', he is just irritated bij advertising cr@p, like I am...

 

[Ray Kilby]

He aint jokin', he is just irritated bij advertising cr@p, like I am...

What's bij advertising? If he's not joking, then why hit out at completely innocent 35mm and say it's only good enough for spyware? It's like punching the guy in the face next the one who insulted your wife. It doesn't make sense. And anyway, shouldn't he have the opportunity to defend himself? I was only saying that Cartier Bresson and Robert Capa took pretty good pictures in 35mm, Or do you think that's also a bit contentious to remind people of? God, this is fun, I love a good aurgument. I like your pictures by the way very much.

 

[jaapv]

What's bij advertising? If he's not joking, then why hit out at completely innocent 35mm and say it's only good enough for spyware? It's like punching the guy in the face next the one who insulted your wife. It doesn't make sense. And anyway, shouldn't he have the opportunity to defend himself? I was only saying that Cartier Bresson and Robert Capa took pretty good pictures in 35mm, Or do you think that's also a bit contentious to remind people of? God, this is fun, I love a good aurgument. I like your pictures by the way very much.

The advertising is just Canon trying to camouflage that Leica makes the better wideangles

Hey! Thanks

 

[jaapv]

I would not even post this rumour as I don't believe it (well, for 99%) but it came from a fairly deep throat. The M8 will cost 2990 Euro plus sales margin plus VAT. As I said, this is *highly unlikely* imo, but added to the advertised price of Foto Rembrandt in Belgium of 3900 Euro and a bit, it makes for that nagging 1% hope.......

 

[ZeissFan]

I would not even post this rumour as I don't believe it (well, for 99%) but it came from a fairly deep throat. The M8 will cost 2990 Euro plus sales margin plus VAT. As I said, this is *highly unlikely* imo, but added to the advertised price of Foto Rembrandt in Belgium of 3900 Euro and a bit, it makes for that nagging 1% hope.......

I agree that the "source" here is likely off the target by a bit -- how much remains to be seen.

I also tend not to put much credence into anonymous sources.

There was some goofball on pnet who claimed to have "an industry source" who told him the Zeiss Ikon wouldn't be released until 2007, 2008 or never. He kept insisting this even after the camera was for sale.

I would be very surprised if the digital M comes in under 4000 Euros. But we'll see soon enough.

 

[Mark Norton]

I sent an email to Foto Rembrandt asking if they would accept my order at €3900 and there was no reply. They're a waste of time.

 

[petermcwerner]

I am all for full frame: 8"x10" negs that is. Leica's first mistake was to introduce that 35mm film; they should have stuck to glass plates and sheet film. Real photographers use real cameras: full frame is 8x10 negs, 4x5 is half frame and 35mm is plain nothing, good for so called "spy cameras" that end up in museums and have no practical use. Let us wait for the 8x10 digital cameras to come.
.....
I hope you are joking. I can't believe your not. I agree that 10x 8 large negs are wonderful. But you have to agree that some of the greatest images shot, and for that matter probably the majority have been shot on 35mm film

Of course I was not serious, but the discussion about wanting a full size 24x36mm sensor for the M8 reminds me very much of the argumentation that was current fifty years ago. Respectable press photographer would use Speed Graphics or similar cameras, nothing less than 4x5".

 

[amateriat]

As for the "rangefinder" I can see that with film, digital photography however is a totally different issue, making the most of a 36 shot film requires different techniques than being able to shoot 2gigs of 7 megapixel jpegs.....

Is this another way of saying a dSLR shooter doesn't need to think as much before dropping the hammer on the shutter release? (A lot of PJ output over the years would appear to bear this out, IMO.)


- Barrett

 

[2001alal]

I voted for no plans to get one. I already have a full darkroom setup, so not only would i have to pay $6500 for a system i would also have to buy a computer that could hadle large file sizes and a printer that was high enough quality to make decdent prints, so it would be in the $10,000 range. thats way to much for anything other than a down payment on a home or car. And who knows what sorts of things will go wrong with it.

zack
i'm sorry but you reason for not getting a M8 seams to be more financial which is fine
but lets not confuse the issue, leica / canon / nikon etc
it always going to be the person behind the tool NOT the tool itself
the word photography is to ''write with light''
what tool the photographer chooses use is not the question
its the results to which he or she strives to obtain
from old school pinhole box cameras to digital
thanks and be well
alex

 

[Mark Norton]

Is this another way of saying a dSLR shooter doesn't need to think as much before dropping the hammer on the shutter release? (A lot of PJ output over the years would appear to bear this out, IMO.)

Good point. If you use a P&S camera or Program Mode on a DSLR, you're much less likely to use the aperture setting and resulting depth of field as a creative tool, and if you use autofocus, you're much less likely to experiment with different planes of focus.

A rangefinder camera forces you to select the aperture you want manually and to focus manually and, without the benefit of Depth of Field preview, relies on you the photographer being able to visualise what the image is going to look like. There's a learning process there which a digital camera can speed up by making the results more quickly available.

That's why I run rangefinder in parallel to SLR. Rangefinder forces on me a more considered approach to what I am photographing and makes me a better photographer as a result.

 

[ezio gallino]

I will go very very slow. 4500 euros are a fortune and I will never spend for that. first I will look for a second-hand epson under 1500 euros: they are beginning to appear and if I will be a little lucky prices will go even downer. If they will be unreachable I will look for a Digilux2 or its Panasonic counterpart; in parallel I will go for films like Fuji Velvia , Efke, scanned and computer printed.
Then at last when prices became reasonnable I will finally look for a lightly used M8. maybe three years from now reevaluating my needs. No crazy acts of any kind. If Zeiss Ikon will do something equivalent (not so easy) I will consider it too: so anything else. Remember camera is just a box only lens are really important (if they don't weight too much to carry them with you).

bye to everybody.

Ezio

 

[sgy1962]

I think it is amazing that we have so many people already pre-ordering the M8.

And Leica is not even taking pre-orders yet. I'll stick with my analog Ms, but I really belive this digital M will be a good seller, at least initially.

 

[Mark Norton]

... which is why I think the price of €3900 from one Belgian dealer is, at best, a guestimate.

If that is the price, it's not that much more than an M7 so represents good value (at least by Leica standards) for money.

Once the M8 is out, I think prices for the R-D1 will harden, currently there's limited ex-demo stock available in the UK at around $2000 + tax. New stock appears to be sold out so that the M8 will be the only (new) game in town.

 

[ezio gallino]

What I heard about European price is 4500 euros (Leica FAQ). Too much... considering that in USA they will be $5000: at the actual euro/dollar ratio is crazy. I know that american market for Solms is a must: but I know that the world it's becoming a global thing too...

 

[Mark Norton]

Yet nobody seems to think $4500 for a D2X is too much or that $3500 for a Noctilux is too much. What I would hate to see is Leica building the camera down to a price instead of up to a specification. We've got too used to buying stuff from China costing next to nothing, sadly, if you want it made in Germany, that is going to be expensive.

 

[PaulDalex]

Evenctually, maybe, I will buy a digital and I want to spend very little money (in any case it will be obsolete the very moment I will buy it)
Want to know what I will use it for?
Here are some example:
If someone hits my car. If I need toservice my Nikon F, then I want to take a picture after removing each single part, etc. Got the idea?
Thiese I call utility pictures. may be my next cell will be adequate for that.
To take instead PHOTOS I will use film for the rest of my life
Regards
Pistach

 

[ezio gallino]

Yet nobody seems to think $4500 for a D2X is too much or that $3500 for a Noctilux is too much. What I would hate to see is Leica building the camera down to a price instead of up to a specification. We've got too used to buying stuff from China costing next to nothing, sadly, if you want it made in Germany, that is going to be expensive.

Too much for my pockets...., of course; for me take photograph is a pleasure, not a job. Canos EOS fully framed and Nikon D2X and why not a Leica DMR system are heavy and in the same range. I don't want to carry an heavy bag on my back everytime I exit to shoot some image. M6 + nocti are night perfect! probably m8 with same nocti will do the trick.

 

[nrb]

I guess many of us will review their options on buying a new M7 after analysis of images taken by it. I'm sure this M7 will be much better than Leica's slr counterpart.

 

[Grober]

I have a pile of M-glass (Leica, Canon, Voigtlander) but have set a personal limit of $ 3200 for a Leica-built digital body or $2200 for other-built digital bodies. Of course, it needs to be new with a valid warranty in the USA.

$5K for a Leica digital? Nope, I don't need to feed my habit that badly.

I believe Photokina will hold a surprise or two that no one sees currently. Epson R-D2? Zeiss MD? Surely one of the above.