How many rinses can film take?

[sbug]

I have no idea so I figured I’d ask. I have always had very good luck with Tri-X (rinsing with tap water, hang, finger squeegee and let dry) and not getting water marks. My luck has changed over the past couple of rolls though so when I looked at the latest roll this morning, I took it down and re-rinsed it and hung it again. Now that it is dry it still has spots. I’m getting some distilled water later today that should do the trick but I have no idea if multiple rinses like this are particularly bad for film or if they really have very little to no effect at all. Thoughts?

 

[FrankS]

There is no danger from the rinsing, it jsut that whenever the emulsion is wet and soft, there is a danger of scratching/damaging it.

 

[FrankS]

Daniel, it is a very good idea to leave the film on the spirals, resting sideways, so that water is able to run completely off the film over the short distance of the film's width. Thank you for that hint!

(Just takes a bit more patience to keep from pulling the film off the reels as soon as possible to get a look at the results.)

 

[RML]

Indeed a good tip! I'll keep it in mind. I'll have to force myself to keep the film on the spool but I'll try, really. 🙂

 

[Jonathan R]

I shake the film and spiral together, hard, to flick off excess water. Cuts drying time and saves on drying marks. Tetenal Mirasol 2000 is a brilliant additive too.

 

[jaypolaski]

I haven't had any problems pulling the film off the reels right away. What I do is when pouring out the final rinse with Photo-flo I pour the mixture over the fingers I use for the wiping. It allows me to wipe a little more aggressively, getting more water off the film. I then leave it hanging with an exhaust fan on.

Will leaving the film on the reels work with plastic reels? I'd think it would hinder drying as the holes are smaller than they are with the metal reels.

 

[FrankS]

About film on plastic reels: The point is not drying, the point is that with the film resting sideways, water drops have just a few CM's to move to reach the side of the film.

What I've been doing since I started proicessing film, is what you describe, but even with a between the fingers squeegee, any water drops on film hung vertically, will inevitably dry, leaving water marks before reaching the very end of the roll.

Daniel's hint has been an epiphany for me!
Thank you Daniel!

 

[bmattock]

When film already has spots on it, sometimes re-rinsing will not remove them. They are hard mineral deposits. I recommend film cleaner in such cases. Edwal makes some (Anti-Stat Film Cleaner). You can also use a Kinetronice Anti-Static Tiger Cloth with or without the film cleaner - it is very gentle and won't scratch your film - you can wash them and use them over and over.

I don't dry my film on reels because I don't use reels, I use aprons. My life is much easier than the reel dudes.

 

[nikon_sam]

I have tried the squeege with rubber inserts (SCRATCHES FILM) so I quit using it...(may try replacing rubber inserts with soft spong material)...
Photo-Flo and finger squeege works for me...Film Cleaner applied with cotton ball later if needed, soft brush and air ball for any other lint...

 

[bmattock]

I've used the squeegee and the fingers method, no scratches either way. I think the secret may be that when using the rubber squeegee, you have to wet it first. Also, I use a hardening fixer, which I think helps, but some people dislike hardening fixers. Anyway, I've recently been just not squeegeeing with the tool or with my fingers, just shake and hang - seems to also work fine.

 

[FrankS]

Does no one else see the brilliant logic of letting the drips drop sideways?

 

[nikon_sam]

I've used the squeegee and the fingers method, no scratches either way. I think the secret may be that when using the rubber squeegee, you have to wet it first. Also, I use a hardening fixer, which I think helps, but some people dislike hardening fixers. Anyway, I've recently been just not squeegeeing with the tool or with my fingers, just shake and hang - seems to also work fine.

I would dip the squeege in the Photo-Flo before using and would squeeze just enough to remove wetness...it would be a hit & miss thing with scratches...So far the fingers are working better...I have no problem using a Fixer with hardner...I thought that's all they made until recently...

 

[bmattock]

Does no one else see the brilliant logic of letting the drips drop sideways?

It is a crime against nature. An offense against gravity. And it make me all itchy.

What are you, some kind of communist or something, Frank?

Drip sideways. Sheesh!

You're a dangerous man.

 

[wde60]

Frank, I have toyed with the idea of leaving the film on the reel to drip sideways but the layers of film are very close together which may inhibit the downward flow of drops. Instead, I hang the negative strip at an angle for a few minutes and then hang it conventionally for the remainder of the dry time. In my logic, hanging at an angle means that the water droplets can flow quickly across the strip and then down the edge.

 

[sienarot]

Does no one else see the brilliant logic of letting the drips drop sideways?

Makes sense to me! I've gotta try it out next time. I'm usually too excited to see how my negs come out to have ever thought of it myself 😛

 

[FrankS]

This epiphany is ironic because it was just a few days ago that I answered a thread about hanging drying film by saying that I simply hung it vertically as God intended. I guess he heard me and set me straight. 🙂

 

[sepiareverb]

...(Just takes a bit more patience to keep from pulling the film off the reels as soon as possible to get a look at the results.)

Metal reels Frank! You can peek at the first foot and a half of film after the fixer and put it back on the reel for the rest of the process/wash.

I always used to peek halfway throught the fixer- now I wait till the rinse between hypo and hypo-clear- keeps my wrists from getting fixed.

 

[Madrigal]

Daniel, it is a very good idea to leave the film on the spirals, resting sideways, so that water is able to run completely off the film over the short distance of the film's width. Thank you for that hint!

(Just takes a bit more patience to keep from pulling the film off the reels as soon as possible to get a look at the results.)

Me, three! No reason not to try this, apart from the impatience...

 

[sbug]

I appreciate all the good advice and Bill, it’s good to see you back here. Anyhow, here’s my update:

IMHO, water spots have a lot to do with the film. For instance, Tri-X is way easier to wash than say, Neopan.

As someone mentioned, the water spots can be hard to remove. I wet the film then scrub (maybe that’s not the right word) very lightly and viola, they go away. Just make sure to keep this on the non-emulsion side, ok? 🙂

Anyhow, I got rid of my spots by doing a repeat final rinse in distilled water (~ 5 minutes, constant agitation) and then knocking the reel on its side to move the water to one edge of the film and then hanging to dry at a bit of an angle rather than straight up and down. The result, no spots. Success!

Now if only I took some better photos…

 

[BILLC]

Well I had two rolls to soup, 1-120 and 1-35, so I thought why not try the on reel drying. After the wash and a dip in photo-flo I tapped them on a towel and then set them down to dry for about 36 hrs. This morning I took them off of the reels and the 120 was still wet inside and both still had water on the reels. On the bright side they did dry without spots in about 30 min. after I hung them up as usual. There was a little more curl than normal but not too bad. So I am going back to hanging it up.
Bill