How should i get the film on a stainless steel tank spiral

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splaaash

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I cannot get a film on a stainless tank spiral:mad: Ive tried and tried for years...not every day with an old film.

Every time i pack the developing gear for a trip in the RV i put my tanks on a table and look at them;)

I have a standard single film Patterson..which is the one i use...i have a Leitz large single film and a Leitz paper coffee container size and a single film stainless steel tank which is half the size of the Patterson

I take my practice film and try to load it,after several tries i give up
HOW should i bend and push the film..it always gets stuck after less than about 7 inches of film is on the spiral:eek:

While im hear why dose the leitz tank use a roll of what looks like film and the film to be developed slides between the "film" fixed on the spiral?????
I dont use it as it take years to dry when im done with it:eek:
 
Dozens of tutorial videos about how to do it on YouTube.

With a stainless steel spiral you pull the film from the hub, you don't push it from the outer rim. The technique is 100% opposite to what it is when using a Paterson spiral.

That said, if you get stuck all the time after several rounds, you may have a bad quality Chinese steel spiral with unparallel flanges. Or your spiral might have been dropped in the past.

Stainless steel spirals don't suffer any build quality tolerance (or the minimal one only).

But, once you've got good ones (that is, Nikor or Kindermann or Hewes ones and nothing else) you'll discover that this system is very easy, impossible to goof with, and way better than those pesky plastic things prone to get dirty/sticky/twisted.

The last two sentences of your post aren't clear.
 
Are you using the same film each time? If the film has creases in the edges from improper loading it won't go on properly. The edges of the film can no have any creases or defects.

As mentioned above, the film is clipped into the center and then wound around the spirals, not pushed in from the outer edge.
 
I finally got it down from sacrificing a roll of film and practice with lights on. Then, using the same roll, work on getting it down in the dark. For me, stainless reels for 35mm film are harder to load than Paterson (plastic) reels in that you start the process from the center of the reel.

Also, when I did use a stainless steel, I would cup the film a wee bit as I find it's easier to get it on to the reel.

I only use Paterson reels now for 35mm film as it's easier, at least for me.

With 120 medium formst film, it's much easier to load with stainless reels.

Just my experiences.
 
Step #1 with stainless steel reels is the roll the reel on a flat level surface and watch it carefully. If it wobbles or takes a curved path, throw it in the trash. If it rolls straight without the sides wobbling but the center core doesn't stay perfectly level then throw it out.

Step #2 - If the reel fails step #1 and is trashed, repeat step #1 with a replacement reel.

Only when you get a reel that passes the test should you begin to work on you technique for loading the reel. As has been mentioned, cheap no-name and house brand reels are always suspect. Kindermann, Hewes, and the old Nikor reels are the most reliable.

Also, all stainless steel reels load from the hub outward. You clip the film to the center hub and curve it gently between two fingers with each finger riding gently against the outer edge of the reel.
 
Ko.Fe. said:
It is normal, get Paterson reels and tank.
Click to expand...
This is the kind of comment I will never understand. Steel reels are very easy to load once you've understood how they work. For this you don't need to have got a mechanics Ph.D. : just look at how they're made for a short while and you get it.

Not rewinding the film leader in full in the cartridge is the key for people not being familiar with that system. If you do so you can start loading the film on the steel reel in full light for the length of the exposed leader. Once it's hooked you switch the light off and enroll the whole film length - then it's a real, real, real breeze.

Steel reels and tanks only have advantages over the Paterson ones. More durable (lifetime), more easy to clean, unbreakable, not prone to get stuck because of silver halide residues in the film path, etc.

Plus, the steel tanks are more economic over the years, because they're smaller. Nikor tanks do require 240cc for one 135-36 film, 420cc for two 135-36 films or one 120 film, and 810 cc for four 135-36 films or two 120 films.

25+ years of steel reels and tanks practising here - just processed two 135-36 rolls yesterday night. Not a single problem with loading the films.

Loading a 120 roll on a steel reel is even easier than loading a 135-36 roll on a steel reel.

The only downside - if any - is that you need reels for 35mm and reels for 120. Actually the marketing saying according to which Paterson reels are superior (because the same reel can be used either for 135 or 120 thanks to its adjustable hub) is also the main culprit for the unreliability of Paterson reels over the time.

Amen. :D
 
steel reels "unbreakable", but make sure it was not dropped because if it gets dropped gets distorted and if distorted impossible to load..?

hmmm
i dont get it:)
 
Highway 61 said:
This is the kind of comment I will never understand. Steel reels are very easy to load once you've understood how they work. ...
Click to expand...

+1

The only big advantages to Paterson style reels are:
  • The remain loadable after they've been dropped
  • The cheap knockoffs are reasonably easy to load.
With steel reels, a drop can bend the reel and make it hard to load. Also, the cheap off-brand reels are generally of low quality and often bent or out of alignment even when new. Quality steel reels that are well taken care of are the easiest to load once you've learned how.
 
To make things REALLY simple for you, buy the Hewes 35mm steel reels and make sure you don't drop them on the floor, as any bent reel is useless. Hewes reels let you hook the film by the sprocket holes, and subsequently film winding is a breeze. Any other steel 35mm reel is a PITA in comparison, because it is impossible to load the film exactly parallel.
 
Pherdinand said:
steel reels "unbreakable", but make sure it was not dropped because if it gets dropped gets distorted and if distorted impossible to load..?

hmmm
i dont get it:)
Click to expand...

Unbreakable means that you can't break it when you use it the way it's designed to be, not when dropping it.

Got it better now ?

I've seen tons of Paterson reels having been broken because of some rough handling, and even more Paterson tanks having been broken because of some normal tapping on the working bench during the developing process (yes, you have to tap a developing tank on the bench after each agitation cycle, to avoid stains on the negatives due to air bubbles in the developer - but you know this perfectly).

In this last respect (tapping the tank) nobody would say than plastic is better than steel.

If your point is, that you must have the possibility to drop something without breaking it, then sell your Leica gear and buy a Nikonos ! :D

@mfogiel : Hewes reels are extremely expensive and Nikor/Kindermann reels, which can be bought for a song on eBay, aren't a PITA at all.

What's next ? The Rondinax ? :p :D
 
It's been 46 years since I learned to load Nikkor reels (still have and use the original reels and tanks). I learned by just taking 30 inches of film off a bulk roll and learning in the light until I got it down. Once you do get it, you never have any trouble unless you kink the film getting it out of the cartridge.
Also I 'see' in total darkness. Try it. Your brain can form an image of what your fingers are touching.
 
I also prefer steel reels over Patterson. Among other things, they can be dried easier, but if you never do more than one roll, it isn't a problem. The Pattersons also have to be kept cleaner, but that doesn't mean steel reels should be allowed to rust and absorb dirt and chemicals.

One thing I would add to all the above is the way I do it. After securing the film on the hub by whatever method is being used (spring, cleat, or holding it into a 90-120 degree bend), and squeezing/cupping the film,as I turn the reel a comfortable amount, I hold it cupped and gently move it back and forth in the wire. If it moves easily until it binds from the friction of the curved reel, I keep going. If it does not, I back up a ways until it does move freely, and continue from there. That way I know film isn't out ot the spirals nor overlapping itself somewhere.
 
Sacrifice a short roll of film and learn on a SS reel. Leave the film attached to the cassette so that you can rewind it and practice by feel in a changing bag. After a while it's automatic. I prefer SS reels because there is nothing to break, they are very easy to clean, and more compact (compared to plastic).

Once you get good at loading one roll, try the old PJ trick to load TWO rolls of film on ONE reel. Anyone remember how much development time to add? It's been years since I did it.
 
Stainless reels may be unbreakable but they are way more fragile.
Accidents happen.
I dropped one on the rug from waist height unspooling a finished reel.... That was it. Done.
The Arista Premium plastic reels are my way now.

Remove the ball bearing and polish the dry reel with a dry toothbrush once every 5rolls or so to remove any residue.
Never had one break. They are available at freestyle.

Everyone has their favorite method. Each has advantages and disadvantages.
Best to stay agnostic on this subject :)
 
Here's a video I made showing how to do it. https://youtu.be/HHLvxVDUZHE

I'm using Hewes reels, as others have recommended. As my video shows, Hewes reels are designed in a way that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to screw up, unless the reel has been dropped or bent. They're expensive, about $30 each new, but WORTH IT.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Here's a video I made showing how to do it. https://youtu.be/HHLvxVDUZHE

I'm using Hewes reels, as others have recommended. As my video shows, Hewes reels are designed in a way that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to screw up, unless the reel has been dropped or bent. They're expensive, about $30 each new, but WORTH IT.
Click to expand...

But what happens if you catch your beard while loading the Hewes reels in the dark ?

:D
 
Hey Chris...
Just watch your video on film developing agitation...it would appear that comparing how I do it to how you do it...I'm way too gentle with my film tank agitation...I'm going to try being a little more aggressive next time and see how that goes...
I do get good results my way but I'm always willing to learn/try something new...

Thanks for the lesson...

As far as loading SS reels I find it easier to load 120 film...I have some decent Brooks reels for 35mm and have been successful loading them but not every time...guess I just need more practice...I've been using Paterson reels for over 35 years and am very sure with them...
 
WOW ok This is what ive always heard,except no one ever told me to load from the center:eek:
My darkroom work has always been good,i often helped with weddings i wasnt on the enlarger but did the development i also loaded tanks...Patterson type

That was back in 2004 now its 100% digital BUT film is making a comeback

As i was around film and darkrooms and had my own darkroom others assumed i i would know how to load a stainless tank,But i had NO idea:mad:

My stainless tank is from 1973 never used it still has the info sheet which dosnt tell me how to load it:( I dont think China existed then??It was part of the English Empire:rolleyes:

The two points that were always given were that it used far less chemicals as pointed out hear,and could be loaded even when wet----damp?
Well i always wondered what would happen if i could load a wet stainless tank,Fingerprints?smudges? I guess they meant load a damp stainless tank fast and get the developer in

As i have half a dozen films in the fridge waiting for development a damp tank that could be reloaded with the drained developer would be great;)

I found a bulk film loader with film FP3 from 1967---it says it is possible its fogged.However i also have about twenty films from 1965/7 which im using to practice with

And yes i was told to cup the film all the same i cant seem to manage even when i start from the center:mad:

I will try this week when i relaxed and have free time:(

Amazing forum i may well be able to use my Stainless tank which will be a wonder as ill be able to develop several films without waiting hours for the tank to dry
 
splaaash said:
WOW ok This is what ive always heard,except no one ever told me to load from the center:eek:
My darkroom work has always been good,i often helped with weddings i wasnt on the enlarger but did the development i also loaded tanks...Patterson type
Click to expand...

Plastic reels like the Patersons are loaded from the outside, while metal reels are leaded from the center.


splaaash said:
I dont think China existed then??It was part of the English Empire:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Umm, China is one of the oldest continuously-existing states in the world. It was never ruled by Britain; that was India.
 
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