mooge
Well-known
ok.
yes- I've owned a Kiev for so long and I don't know how to load it- I cheated and used a little bit of wire. is there a 'proper' way- they way I load, the film advance is real stiff and sounds grind-y, and the last few frames are mashed together.
and do you lads have any special shutter release tricks? mine is a bit stiff, and I can't seem to make it smooth...
cheers.
yes- I've owned a Kiev for so long and I don't know how to load it- I cheated and used a little bit of wire. is there a 'proper' way- they way I load, the film advance is real stiff and sounds grind-y, and the last few frames are mashed together.
and do you lads have any special shutter release tricks? mine is a bit stiff, and I can't seem to make it smooth...
cheers.
R
ruben
Guest
Kiev 4AM: How Do I Load Film
Due to the Contax basic design, it is of the utmost importance that film will travel straight along the camera reels, and catch the sprokets with accuracy. New comers may think I am speaking nonsense, since this is provided with any old camera from the sixties onwards. But by the time the Contax was designed the situation was different, and we are left with the duty of taking special precaution at this stage.
The controversial model 4AM provide us with a fixed spool, but taxes us with smaller protruding sprockets. Is the implication that the take up spool is to take command over the sprockets like in any other camera ? I don't think so, since as much as I observed the gears I didn't find any dramatic change but the same as in older models.
At the old pre-war Contax manual seen at Rick Olesson website, along the severe warnings about loading film correctly, we see a nice girl holding the film flat against the reels, with her thumb, while with her other hand starting to insert the back.
This way (flattening the film with the thumb while inserting the back), is of no relevance but when you are inserting film in other Kievs, pre 4AM, and at those cases, in my opinion, when you are using a spool instead of a Kiev cassette.
So how do I do it ?
1) I start by engaging the take-up fixed spool. Engaging is NOT just passing the film tonge across the take up spool but also winding a full turn, and testing if the film is really engaged. No need to say that if after you wind a full turn you fire the shutter you have done nothing.
Now, it may be the case that you will need two full winding turns, and there is nothing wrong with it, if it happens.
2) Once I have the film strongly engaged at the take up spool, I loosen the necessary length of film to enable me to insert the commercial cassette (Fujicolor, or whatever) into the forks at the left side.
3) Then I gently rewind and take care the film correctly engages the sprockets.
4) After that I continue to rewind a bit more as to eliminate any looseness in the commercial cassette. I do it gently, and when I reach the stop, I apply a bit more of force, and keep this position. Film holes always engaging the sprockets
5) At this situation we have achieved a rather strong tension of the film, between the take up spool and the commercial cassette. Now, with the other hand I place the back, without loosening the rewind knob untill the back is fully re placed. The pressure plate of the back is what will continue the job of maintaining the film correctly engaging the sprockets. (Besides its usual job of flatenning the film like in any other camera).
6) After the 4AM is closed you can release your presuring of the rewind knob and then lock the camera back with the lower lockers.
7) It is to be expected that after you release the rewind knob it will turn back seeking some freedom from tension. But we have bad news for the poor rewind knob: now we want to test if the film is really engaged. For this we now fire our shutter release, gently rewind the "freedom space" within the commercial cassette, gently hold the pressure while we wind for next frame. We must see the rewind knob rotating, i.e. releasing film for the take up spool. Otherwise something went wrong.
8) Are we done ? Almost. From time to time it will not hurt to gently rewind the "freedom space" of the commercial cassette after winding. Tension is the name of the game.
Cheers,
Ruben
As you know the winding knob will ever turn softer without film than with. This is another thermometer for knowing film continues to be engaged. But if at some point the winding turns unusually hard, then don't force it - time for the changing black bag. The film has disengaged from the sprockets and is being pressured between the sprockets and the pressure plate.
__________________
Due to the Contax basic design, it is of the utmost importance that film will travel straight along the camera reels, and catch the sprokets with accuracy. New comers may think I am speaking nonsense, since this is provided with any old camera from the sixties onwards. But by the time the Contax was designed the situation was different, and we are left with the duty of taking special precaution at this stage.
The controversial model 4AM provide us with a fixed spool, but taxes us with smaller protruding sprockets. Is the implication that the take up spool is to take command over the sprockets like in any other camera ? I don't think so, since as much as I observed the gears I didn't find any dramatic change but the same as in older models.
At the old pre-war Contax manual seen at Rick Olesson website, along the severe warnings about loading film correctly, we see a nice girl holding the film flat against the reels, with her thumb, while with her other hand starting to insert the back.
This way (flattening the film with the thumb while inserting the back), is of no relevance but when you are inserting film in other Kievs, pre 4AM, and at those cases, in my opinion, when you are using a spool instead of a Kiev cassette.
So how do I do it ?
1) I start by engaging the take-up fixed spool. Engaging is NOT just passing the film tonge across the take up spool but also winding a full turn, and testing if the film is really engaged. No need to say that if after you wind a full turn you fire the shutter you have done nothing.
Now, it may be the case that you will need two full winding turns, and there is nothing wrong with it, if it happens.
2) Once I have the film strongly engaged at the take up spool, I loosen the necessary length of film to enable me to insert the commercial cassette (Fujicolor, or whatever) into the forks at the left side.
3) Then I gently rewind and take care the film correctly engages the sprockets.
4) After that I continue to rewind a bit more as to eliminate any looseness in the commercial cassette. I do it gently, and when I reach the stop, I apply a bit more of force, and keep this position. Film holes always engaging the sprockets
5) At this situation we have achieved a rather strong tension of the film, between the take up spool and the commercial cassette. Now, with the other hand I place the back, without loosening the rewind knob untill the back is fully re placed. The pressure plate of the back is what will continue the job of maintaining the film correctly engaging the sprockets. (Besides its usual job of flatenning the film like in any other camera).
6) After the 4AM is closed you can release your presuring of the rewind knob and then lock the camera back with the lower lockers.
7) It is to be expected that after you release the rewind knob it will turn back seeking some freedom from tension. But we have bad news for the poor rewind knob: now we want to test if the film is really engaged. For this we now fire our shutter release, gently rewind the "freedom space" within the commercial cassette, gently hold the pressure while we wind for next frame. We must see the rewind knob rotating, i.e. releasing film for the take up spool. Otherwise something went wrong.
8) Are we done ? Almost. From time to time it will not hurt to gently rewind the "freedom space" of the commercial cassette after winding. Tension is the name of the game.
Cheers,
Ruben
As you know the winding knob will ever turn softer without film than with. This is another thermometer for knowing film continues to be engaged. But if at some point the winding turns unusually hard, then don't force it - time for the changing black bag. The film has disengaged from the sprockets and is being pressured between the sprockets and the pressure plate.
__________________
Last edited by a moderator:
40oz
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How are you using wire to load your camera? It's not that different than any other - put cassette on left, thread film to spool on right, ensure the film is engaged by winding a little, and close back. Wind a frame ot two to ensure unexposed film is ready.
My Kiev's all have removable spools, making the process quite easy. I can't see how wire would help. I can agree that the winder is stiffer with film loaded. It's because there is film loaded, and the knob doesn't have the leverage a lever provides. But who knows, if you need wire to get it done.
My Kiev's all have removable spools, making the process quite easy. I can't see how wire would help. I can agree that the winder is stiffer with film loaded. It's because there is film loaded, and the knob doesn't have the leverage a lever provides. But who knows, if you need wire to get it done.
hjagis
Member
I use an empty cartridge. Dont have to rewind. Hjalti
dee
Well-known
Thanks Ruben - isn't this how we used to load ALL cameras - even 70s SLRs ?
I remember that if I forgot to tension the film , it would pull out , or I would snap away , only to find - no pictures !
draganov-if the camera is really stiff , it would need CLA , once serviced properly [ by Ruben ! ] it should be easy to wind - even with a film loaded .
I remember that if I forgot to tension the film , it would pull out , or I would snap away , only to find - no pictures !
draganov-if the camera is really stiff , it would need CLA , once serviced properly [ by Ruben ! ] it should be easy to wind - even with a film loaded .
mooge
Well-known
the spool is my biggest problem- it's got two slots and that's all, nothing that the film hangs on to! and then the spool 'drifts' around on the wind shaft... augh...
am I supposed to fold the leader or something? because it doesn't catch...
I used to stick the film in and jam it with a bit of wire. it worked...
and this is very different from my Canon FTb- with the quickload, you put the film in and pull out the leader to the right length... that's pretty much it.
am I supposed to fold the leader or something? because it doesn't catch...
I used to stick the film in and jam it with a bit of wire. it worked...
and this is very different from my Canon FTb- with the quickload, you put the film in and pull out the leader to the right length... that's pretty much it.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi dragunov:
If you are using the Kiev spool, you are using the best spool ever designed.
The spool has two slots, but on one side they are more close one to the other and the slots are thiner.
So you begun by inserting the film tongue through one of the broad slots, then make the turn and reinsert the film thrugh the second thin slot, letting a surplus of some 2cm, sligthly press the film to tighten it on the spool, and you will have the most strong attaced film to spool of any camera along the history of photography.
At the attached pictures you are seeing the reversed side, i, e, the lower spool holes at the photos are going to catch into the upper forks of the camera. Only this way I could show what should be done, and in fact taking out both the comercial feeding magazine and the Kiev spool, for arranging the tongue may be the best way to do things, instead of remaining limited to the small spaces inside the camera.
Cheers,
Ruben
Attachments
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40oz
...
you push the film through one slot and back through the other. The slots on mine are close on one side of the spool, and farther apart on the other, so the film is held by friction when you wind. Push it through one of the slots that are close together, and push it back through so the tail lies next to the film going back to the cassette. I prefer to have the tail under the "standing" end, but I suppose it's personal preference.
Edit: Just as Ruben explained and showed. Didn't see his post 'til today.
Edit: Just as Ruben explained and showed. Didn't see his post 'til today.
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mooge
Well-known
hey! that's pretty smart... I seemed to have missed that from reading the Kiev and Contax manuals... thanks, Ruben!
AND IT WORKS! yeah! Tomorrow, Tri X it is...
thanks again!
AND IT WORKS! yeah! Tomorrow, Tri X it is...
thanks again!
john341
camera user
Kiev take up
Kiev take up
I once took out a Kiev withour spool. I went into a film lab and they gave me an spool for a cassette of film. A piecw of adhesive on the film tongue to attach to the spool and all was well. If you are worried, a small piece of adhesive take is ok Best of luck. I left a post under "repairs" re how to make an alternate take-up spool for the Kiev if you want to have a look at it
Kiev take up
I once took out a Kiev withour spool. I went into a film lab and they gave me an spool for a cassette of film. A piecw of adhesive on the film tongue to attach to the spool and all was well. If you are worried, a small piece of adhesive take is ok Best of luck. I left a post under "repairs" re how to make an alternate take-up spool for the Kiev if you want to have a look at it