How to make photos like Vivien did?

[Chris101]

I'd heard of Vivien Maier of course, and seen a couple representative pictures in art class. But this article made me go look at her pictures. And look I did! Turns out, her most active time was while I was in my single digits, age-wise. And everything from the 1950, from our childhood, WAS better, more intense than it is now. Face it, we're burnt out.

So there's your difference: then v now.

 

[jsrockit]

I'd be careful in thinking that her success is only because her photos are from a time long gone.

 

[Lauffray]

I'd be careful in thinking that her success is only because her photos are from a time long gone.

You're right, I guess this is turning into a "what makes a good body of work" question, rather than "what made VM's work so good"

 

[daveleo]

If I understand what Cal is trying to say, making good photographs, being a good developer and being a good printer are three different things, each skill takes a lot of time to develop properly and for one to become reasonably proficient in anything the idea is not to scatter your time around.

Jerome,

Your understanding is correct. I look upon each step as an art form. It is a rare photographer who can shoot, develop and print like say Bernice Abbot or W. Eugene Smith, especially today. I look upon being a shooter, developer and a printer as three levels of craftmanship.

Perhaps because I try to frame my photography as art the craftmanship is very imprtant to me. Printing is the final product and why would I want to compromise my quality if I consider myself an artist? This is why I have a day-job.

Also know that I do photography to please myself, and it is not important to me to please others. This really annoys others, so I must be doing something right. LOL.

Cal

Unless you are regularly going to museums and galleries, you are looking at scans of questionable quality on the internet.

Whatever the intent of the OP question, the commentary on this thread is an education. The remarks on developing and printing make me remember how much "art" or craftsmanship has changed (has been lost?) in the digital age.

 

[Calzone]

I suspect her negatives are not too difficult to print, I don't have the sense that a lot of 'adjustment' went into those - the light is too good in every corner. But that is my gut evaluation, you may see it differently.

Randy

Randy,

I see it the same way. Vivian made good negatives.

Steve H. once said at a NYC Meet-Up, "You can't print what's not there." This was in a discussion about the final detail on a nice wet print that was printed big and the detail that was on the negative.

John in an earlier post remarked how good negatives are easy to print. This consistency I believe is because Vivian shot a lot.

Cal

 

[Lauffray]

John in an earlier post remarked how good negatives are easy to print. This consistency I believe is because Vivian shot a lot.

Cal

And she'd have a lot less time to devote to this if she was also trying to learn how to be a good printer, couldn't agree more.

I'm not a luddite by any means, but I think technology made everyone just a little more ADD, I can't imagine what leftover time people today are able to give to actually making photographs and get better at it

 

[Calzone]

You're right, I guess this is turning into a "what makes a good body of work" question, rather than "what made VM's work so good"

Jerome,

Next time you are in New York let me show you this portfolio of 18 prints displayed on the north hallway at Sloan-Kettering of Bernice Abbott's work.

First off this work was shot with an 8x10 view camera and is of the time period when Bernice first came to New York. She loved the city and tried to capture "a changing New York."

This body of work displays careful editing and offers an inspiring print quality via large prints that are technically superb. I find interesting that this series of shots can be viewed in any order and somehow makes a cohesive powerful statement that builds upon itself. Since this is where I work I see this exhibit all the time and it still inspires me.

Also as far as great art goes I do not think the essence of any time period is all that important because in classic culture great art is timeless and never looses its power even though time passes by. Great art has an enduring quality that by definition is timeless.

Cal

 

[Calzone]

I'm not a luddite by any means, but I think technology made everyone just a little more ADD, I can't imagine what leftover time people today are able to give to actually making photographs and get better at it

Jerome,

Never knew anyone who had a complicated life that was happy. I purposely do not text, only have a cell phone because my gal demands that I carry one (she pays for it), and I don't own a car. I am only on the internet at work. LOL. Otherwise I'm obsessing over photography. LOL.

I think it pays to be a slacker, but I think old school is good because it is a mode of thinking that involves and embraces concentration with no shortcuts or immediate gratification.

Cal

 

[sevo]

I'd be careful in thinking that her success is only because her photos are from a time long gone.

But there is some truth to it. Besides a romantic story of discovery, being discovered that recently (and as a stack of negatives, with no collection worthy prints at all) means that the prints are all new, done to please our modern viewing habits - original HCB prints look dull by comparison...

 

[jsrockit]

But there is some truth to it. Besides a romantic story of discovery, being discovered that recently (and as a stack of negatives, with no collection worthy prints at all) means that the prints are all new, done to please our modern viewing habits - original HCB prints look dull by comparison...

Right, but I'm not talking about technical concerns... I'm speaking to her vision and content more so. Her work wasn't discovered because it was inept photos from the past... it's good work.

 

[L Collins]

1. Buy a Rolleiflex
2. Load it with Plus X or Tri X
3. Go out into the street and shoot for 40 years
4. Pick the best ones and have a really good printer print them.

Voila.

 

[stompyq]

All this talk about VM's negatives. She barely printed anything and took photographs because she liked doing it and that's reflected in her work. I some how doubt whether she intended to create "a body of work". All the prints that are out there other than the few handful of postcard sized prints were made by others. Most probably drum scanned and manipulated in post.

 

[kbg32]

Digital maybe made some things simpler, but nothing yet has replaced hard work and experience.

There are a lot of photographers whose work I admire, but were technically deficient - Tony Ray-Jones, HCB, come to to the top of my list. I've read interviews with their printers. They both produced horrendous negatives, yet in the end are known for their vision and dedication to image making. TRJ died at 32. I can only imagine how his vision would have progressed over a lifetime of image making.

 

[jsrockit]

All this talk about VM's negatives.

Well, a good print does start with negative Pramodh.

She barely printed anything and took photographs because she liked doing it and that's reflected in her work.

Nobody stated anything differently

how doubt whether she intended to create "a body of work".

What makes you think this? She was obviously serious and dedicated.

 

[Kwesi]

Right, but I'm not talking about technical concerns... I'm speaking to her vision and content more so. Her work wasn't discovered because it was inept photos from the past... it's good work.

I couldn't agree more. I was at the opening reception of an exhibition of her work last weekend here at Brandeis University and got to spend quite a bit of time with the 36 prints on display. What came through loud and clear for me was the intensity of her curiosity about the people with whom she shared the cities of Chicago and New York with. The time period is inconsequential. Her work is fabulous and transcendental because of her quest to better understand herself and her place in society through an honest and unrelenting observation of the everyday goings on of her fellow citizens. All images in the show were printed square which when used well has a way of taking you into a photograph like no other format.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Talent aside. Get a 9 to 5 job; don't have a partner; don't have children; spend all of your non-working hours walking the streets taking pictures. That's a good beginning.

 

[stompyq]

Well, a good print does start with negative Pramodh.



Nobody stated anything differently



What makes you think this? She was obviously serious and dedicated.

Define a good negative john. And also the lady forbade anyone from even entering her room much less go through her pics. I can't believe she was interested in creating a body of work in the conventional sense that "artists" do.

 

[Lauffray]

Define a good negative john. And also the lady forbade anyone from even entering her room much less go through her pics. I can't believe she was interested in creating a body of work in the conventional sense that "artists" do.

I'm not sure artists and conventional really fit in the same sentence 🙄
Maybe she was just very private ?
I mean I don't like to show most of my stuff to people either

 

[jsrockit]

Define a good negative john.

One that is properly exposed and developed for the given situation(s), the look you want to acheive, and the emulsion used? Let's not try to make this into something it isn't. We all know there are many variables in developing and exposure... However, we all know bad negatives when we see them (too thin or too thick for typical use). Her photos are developed in straight forward manner.

And also the lady forbade anyone from even entering her room much less go through her pics. I can't believe she was interested in creating a body of work in the conventional sense that "artists" do.

Reality and dreams sometimes never meet. Perhaps she was shy and all about the work she was doing, but that doesn't mean she didn't want to be discovered. In art school there were plenty of people who had to be coaxed into showing work because they were shy. It didn't mean they didn't want their work to be seen. It's possible she did the work and never thought it was ready to be shown...that's another disease artists seem to have a lot.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

There are a lot of damn good MF film photos still made nowadays but non really with the intense film look of the photos made by Vivian Maier..Has film changed?
http://www.vivianmaier.com/

I could see same quality on Flickr B/W MF groups if not better.
What I don't remember to see is successful using of TLR as street photography camera.
I tried it and it is very awkward to scale focus and frame in seconds.

100K of MF negatives... Was film so cheap?