giganova
Well-known
I submitted PDF of select photos, a synopsis and cover letter to a few book publishers. Some expressed interest, but they asked me what my budget was! Are they expecting that I chip in some of the publication costs?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Possibly. But if they are bona fides publishers (in the old sense of bona fides), they may be angling for an indication of how much of an advance they may have to offer. They won't want to offer you an advance that is too small to cover the probable costs of your finishing the book, while keeping it low enough that they can afford to pay it.
If they are expecting you to contribute to the printing and publication costs, on the other hand, then they are what used to be called "vanity publishers" and are now transformed into the rather more honest guise of self publishing. What other books have they published? Have you bought a Writers' and Artists' Yearbook yet? If not, why not?
Cheers,
R.
giganova
Well-known
Thanks, Roger, for making me understand this better! The ones that have expressed interest are solid bona fides (ha!) publishers with a track record of great photography books. They also asked whether I have institutional support and whether I plan on exhibits.
I just downloaded the Writers' and Artists' Yearbook Kindle book ... reading it now!
I just downloaded the Writers' and Artists' Yearbook Kindle book ... reading it now!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Good! See you at Arles next year? From the sound of it, this is the kind of thing they were angling for.
Cheers,
R.
giganova
Well-known
I'd love to go to Arles next year ... hopefully I can make it happen!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The probability that they are trying to figure the size of an advance, these days, is virtually nil. Short of winning a prize in a photo book completion, such as the annual Kassel dummy book completion, where the prize is getting your book published, an unpublished, unknown photographer is not likely to get his or her photo book published without paying all or a portion of the printing costs, even if it's a major publisher. That's the negative aspect of recent developments in photo book publishing.
The positive developments in digital technology book publishing technology have made it possible to break even with a run as small as 500 books, using good quality digital offset printing — not print-on-demand services like Blurb, which is what can be called "vanity publishing" today. Actually, these days there is what could be called a renaissance in photo book publishing, but the issue is how a photographer can build up an audience for a book.
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Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine
Big Ursus
Well-known
"Are they expecting that I chip in some of the publication costs?"
Ask them whether that's what they expect. If it is, it's not a good idea.
Vanity companies used to be very bad news when I was writing and getting published.
Here's an old mantra: never write for free, and never ever pay a publisher. In other words, if you can't find a company which will pay you, just self-publish!
Is there a writers group in your neighbourhood? Its members might be able to give you some tips.
Ask them whether that's what they expect. If it is, it's not a good idea.
Vanity companies used to be very bad news when I was writing and getting published.
Here's an old mantra: never write for free, and never ever pay a publisher. In other words, if you can't find a company which will pay you, just self-publish!
Is there a writers group in your neighbourhood? Its members might be able to give you some tips.
Big Ursus - the original post is about publishing a photo book, which involves a completely different situation from publishing a fiction or non-fiction book that one has written. As stated in my previous posting, these days it's highly unlikely and unusual that a photo book, a photographer's monograph if you will, can be published without the photographer funding it partially or wholly, if the photographer is not well known.
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Are you sure? Have you direct experience? I haven't: I've written only non-fiction books about photography, i.e. heavily illustrated texts. With advances.
Cheers,
R.
Roger - Yes, and based on discussions with a major French publisher — as well discussions and correspondence with David Alan Harvey. He mentors photographers on publishing photo books, and has written along these lines in comments on his BURN Magazine website and, as far as I recall, on Instagram.
As I understand it, his general view is that the traditional way of publishing photo books was waned but that self-publishing has blossomed and transformed the whole field: to the point that there is a "renaissance" of photo book publishing and that photographers can have much more freedom in what and how they publish — although with all this comes the necessity of developing an audience by the photographer by himself or herself.
As stated earlier, the ability to break even in an offset print run of a mere 500 books is what has brought this flexibility. Someone else who has written extensively about the current situation on photo book publishing is Jörg Colberg on his Conscientious Photo Magazine blog.
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Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine
As I understand it, his general view is that the traditional way of publishing photo books was waned but that self-publishing has blossomed and transformed the whole field: to the point that there is a "renaissance" of photo book publishing and that photographers can have much more freedom in what and how they publish — although with all this comes the necessity of developing an audience by the photographer by himself or herself.
As stated earlier, the ability to break even in an offset print run of a mere 500 books is what has brought this flexibility. Someone else who has written extensively about the current situation on photo book publishing is Jörg Colberg on his Conscientious Photo Magazine blog.
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Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Thanks. Please forgive my quizzing you as I have, but all too often, the people on photo (and other) forums are running at best on second-hand information, and sometimes on pure fantasy. Hence my skepticism. And, now, hence my apologies.
Cheers,
R.
nikonhswebmaster
reluctant moderator
In the US, with the demise of Powerhouse, possibly. Who is out there right now besides Aperture or ICP in the US?
In my limited experience, of a dozen friends, publication without showing work, or better a gallery connection is very unlikely. Although receiving an NEA or the like will often provide a pathway.
Several of my friends have had a monograph published during a show. I own many of them, but wonder if it adds much to the bottom line for the artist?
On getting paid, get an advance, it is likely the only substantial money you will see. As for future earning, publishers use the same methods as the movie industry to add costs which reduce profit to the artist, often to zero.
Do any of these books even reach the basic first printing, 3000 copy distribution? Without a gallery, or museum show, how does the photographer develop a following.
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Probably online exposure, like an online portfolio, Facebook, Instagram, etc. ? Does anyone had developed a following using those channels?
nikonhswebmaster
reluctant moderator
Clearly instagram has a huge following, but does a following on it mean much, as far as money or mainstream fame?
Just asking... my women friends are obsessed with instagram.
kxl
Social Documentary
Money? Yes -- it's all about getting A LOT of followers, and once you do, becoming a sponsor. Example: let's say you've accumulated 10,000 followers. Companies will offer you $$$$ to post their branded products on your Instagram.
There are a few apps (e.g., Popular Pays) that even offer a market place platform to connect brands and creators. I think you have to have at least 500 followers before you can join(?).
Not sure why 3,000 copies should represent a "basic first printing." These days not only are the bulk of photo books, even distinguished ones, self-published, but, also, photographers often start with editions as small as 500 or 1,000 copies. The aim of the photographer is often to try to get that small edition out to influential photographers, galleries and editors. Not easy to do. Also, not easy to develop a following, unless your dummy book wins a prize.
However, there are many examples that one can find. One is Anton Kusters' Yakuza book. It was self-published in a small edition under the BURN label. It had an fascinating back story that developed the demand. Once the book was published, there were newspapers articles about it and Kusters got several exhibitions in international galleries, and then published a second edition. You can read about it on Kusters' blog.
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Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine
easyrider
Photo addict
I would get a literary agent or agency and seek some advice. They know the market -- if any. You might also consider self-publishing. Much in vogue these days.
(PS: don't know why Roger is giving you a hard time about bona fides. Maybe he flunked Latin or maybe they didn't teach it any more when he went to school.
) )
(PS: don't know why Roger is giving you a hard time about bona fides. Maybe he flunked Latin or maybe they didn't teach it any more when he went to school.
) )