HP5+ developing fail

[Roger Hicks]

Roger,
Are you mixing polymers and water???

A plastic bag is flexible yet it's not humid and it will never dry enough to be brittle.

Ah, whatever, Roger.

Eh? Have you any idea what gelatine IS? Follow the link above. Or just Google 'gelatine' (or even 'gelatin').

Edit: of course, you can mix polymers and water: cf http://www.google.com/patents/US5521234 and for that matter, as far as I am aware, some photographic 'emulsions' do contain synthetic polymers, at least in printing papers.

But I think you meant 'conflate' rather than 'mix'.

The point is that in this discussion I am working at the limits of my knowledge and as far as I can see you are working well beyond the limits of yours.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Kkiuru]

If you are using a changing bag, wash your hands with cold water before.

I use this trick: disassemble the roll around your finger and load it to the spiral backwards. Works everytime.

 

[Peter_Jones]

If you are using a changing bag, wash your hands with cold water before.

I use this trick: disassemble the roll around your finger and load it to the spiral backwards. Works everytime.

Yep, I have often resorted to these tactics 😀

 

[zauhar]

I do everything advised above (trim the end of the film to give it rounded corners, clean the reels and bearings, make sure the reels are bone dry prior to use) and have had no trouble for a long time. UNTIL one roll recently that balked. It was several months old, and I could definitely feel a tackiness to the film. If I remember right it was Arista premium.

I did get it to load, but there were a few creases and damaged frames.

Randy

 

[gb hill]

I've had it happen to me a couple of times. Humidity was the culprit. Film gets a bit humid & the plastic reels, & it's a pain to load sometimes.

 

[Clint Troy]

Eh? Have you any idea what gelatine IS? Follow the link above. Or just Google 'gelatine' (or even 'gelatin').

Edit: of course, you can mix polymers and water: cf http://www.google.com/patents/US5521234 and for that matter, as far as I am aware, some photographic 'emulsions' do contain synthetic polymers, at least in printing papers.

But I think you meant 'conflate' rather than 'mix'.

The point is that in this discussion I am working at the limits of my knowledge and as far as I can see you are working well beyond the limits of yours.

Cheers,

R.

Yes Roger. And once your film dries, it cracks, right?

If I followed your logic, a roll of film couldn't be rolled without cracking.

 

[Clint Troy]

Roger, I tried the trick of the Mirror you talked about. Do you want to know for how long the condensation lasted?

1 second. I had to blow on it.

Are you sure you are not confusing letting a camera warming up gradually to a Room temperature Versus a roll of film? Yes, lotsa condensation forming on lens elements. But that's also easily explainable and it surely dos NOT apply to a roll of film for many reasons (which I've already explained).

 

[Vics]

I did 20 years of hard labor with Patterson reels and tanks because everyone to0ld me the SS reels were murder. Then a local PJ had a garage sale and I got to talking to him about my loading problems and he said, "why don't you use Nikkor reels?" He pooh-poohed all those tales I'd heard and sold me a bunch of reels and tanks for almost nothing, and I've been a happy camper ever since! Go stainless steel. You'll never look back.

 

[Photo_Smith]

Roger, I tried the trick of the Mirror you talked about. Do you want to know for how long the condensation lasted?

1 second. I had to blow on it.

Are you sure you are not confusing letting a camera warming up gradually to a Room temperature Versus a roll of film? Yes, lotsa condensation forming on lens elements. But that's also easily explainable and it surely dos NOT apply to a roll of film for many reasons (which I've already explained).

Cint, condensation forms on film when it is thawed. Film contains water it is not anhydrous, but that has no bearing on why condensation forms.
Even Kodak freeze film called master rolls to store it; I can tell you they bring it up to temp s-l-o-w-l-y in controlled conditions.

A plastic bag is flexible yet it's not humid and it will never dry enough to be brittle.

Humidity is a measure of the air not the actual object, condensation forms on an object because the relative humidity of the air is higher than the temperature of the object. Film and plastic bags can dry to be brittle normally at low temperature say -50°c

You seem very confused so here is some info from Kodak:

Recommendations you can trust, film does in deed suffer from condensation!

 

[sepiareverb]

Clint has special thermostatic hands which transfer heat in an unusual fashion. 10 to 15 seconds from -18 to +20°C through the cassette to the core. I can only think of one other person who claims to be able to do this.

 

[MaxFrank]

Thanks for all the input!
I had the film out of the fridge (which is about 2-4 degrees above 0 I guess) for at least 2 hours. I changed the film in the bathroom, shower had not been used for over an hour I think so condensation wasn't really the culprit I think.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Thanks for all the input!
I had the film out of the fridge (which is about 2-4 degrees above 0 I guess) for at least 2 hours. I changed the film in the bathroom, shower had not been used for over an hour I think so condensation wasn't really the culprit I think.

So the answer, most likely, is 'go stainless'.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Photo_Smith]

Thanks for all the input!
I had the film out of the fridge (which is about 2-4 degrees above 0 I guess) for at least 2 hours. I changed the film in the bathroom, shower had not been used for over an hour I think so condensation wasn't really the culprit I think.

I wouldn't say it was either, jams with the plastic reels happens because they can get a brownish residue which needs to be cleaned off. That is the most likely cause of 'sticky' reels.

 

[sepiareverb]

I wouldn't say it was either, jams with the plastic reels happens because they can get a brownish residue which needs to be cleaned off. That is the most likely cause of 'sticky' reels.

And again, the simplest cure is metal reels. Less chemistry use also.

 

[gb hill]

Thanks for all the input!
I had the film out of the fridge (which is about 2-4 degrees above 0 I guess) for at least 2 hours. I changed the film in the bathroom, shower had not been used for over an hour I think so condensation wasn't really the culprit I think.

Yea, if you wasn't using a changing bag humidity probably wasn't the culprit. Since my last incident I started taking more time cleaning my plastic reels & haven't had a problem at all loading my films.

 

[Ljós]

I am not sure that metal reels are "the simplest" cure in this case. Both systems have a learning curve, and require an amount of "fluency" and experience. Both offer different ways of screwing up, too ;-) Metal reels can give you a hard time when you dropped them - plastic reels just bounce ;-)
Once "mastered", both systems can give troublefree loading experiences roll after roll after roll.

As an aside, and loyal of user of HP5plus 🙂, I really think the title of the thread is a misnomer, as it is neither a developing nor (likely) a HP5plus problem.
Greetings, Ljós

 

[Photo_Smith]

And again, the simplest cure is metal reels. Less chemistry use also.

Sure and they work for some people, I operated a handline with Hewes metal reels which are some of the best, I don't use them though because they just aren't as easy to load especially in a dark bag.

It's a personal thing, I find I prefer the plastic and most people I've taught seem to gravitate towards the plastic ones when given the choice.

 

[sepiareverb]

It's a personal thing

Granted. And if one can deal with or doesn't get the problems with the plastic that I see every semester then maybe that is their better option. I have to say that since switching to Hewes from Nikkor/Kindermann style reels I've not had a single misload and I have saved lots of time fussing with a reel. I recently got a 120 Hewes reel in trade and looking at it didn;t think it would be any better than my no-name metal 120 reels, but wow.

We all gravitate to what we find easiest and get used to it, which makes it easier. I point everyone to Hewes reels now if they're just starting or are experiencing problems with loading.

 

[Clint Troy]

Clint has special thermostatic hands which transfer heat in an unusual fashion. 10 to 15 seconds from -18 to +20°C through the cassette to the core. I can only think of one other person who claims to be able to do this.

Bob,

Please take into account that aluminum (or whatever the cassette is made of) is metal and highly conductive. Goes from 0-20 to _ 20 in seconds.
And acetate doesn't freeze.

So yes, 15 seconds is more then enough.

 

[clayne]

You guys wouldn't have to do any of these various games to get the film to load if you would just ditch the plastic reels and use Hewes stainless steel reels.

Just say no to plastic reels.

Also, common sense and experience dictates that, even without measuring, there's no way a canister of film goes from <10C to 20C+ in less than 60 seconds. Conversely, if it were true, it would mean film is frozen within 2 minutes of putting it in the freezer, right? Crazy talk.