HP5+ & Tmax Dev & 26°C

[WJJ3]

Hello RFFs, I have a question about the combo in the title I was hoping someone here might have experience with. I live Kagoshima which is pretty hot in the summer, and would like to process my film at 26°C, but can't seem to find an established developing time.

Using Ilford's temperature adjustment chart gives me an approximate time of 3.5 min for 26°C, but Kodak says Tmax Dev shouldn't be used at times of less than 5 min.

What I am thinking about doing is mixing the Tmax at 1:9 instead of 1:4 and just double the 3.5 min developing time. I know the best way to figure this out is to just do it and see what happens, but I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions before I give it a go? Thanks!

Just to be clear:
-Ilford recommends HP5+ in Tmax Dev (1:4) at 20°C for 6.5 min.
-Ilford's temp adjustment chart suggests 26°C for 3.5 min.
-Kodak recommends no less than 5 min developing time with Tmax Dev.
-Kodak's recommended time for 1:9 dilution for Kodak film is exactly double that of 1:4

Based on all of the above I am thinking I can use the following:

-HP5+ / Tmax Dev. 1:9 / 26°C / 7 min.

Please let me know what you think!

 

[PKR]

Higher temps aren't great for the emulsion. Why don't you try to stick to 20C ?

 

[WJJ3]

Higher temps aren't great for the emulation. Why don't you try to stick to 20C ?

Thanks, Im guessing 24-26°C is not going to be bad for the film, Kodak recommends 24°C for Tmax Dev., and Ilford says its film can be developed over a wide range of temperatures, and gives adjusted times up to 24°C.

Getting and keeping 20°C is more work thank I want to do in the hot weather right now. I would rather find a reasonable time for 26°C

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Ilford's temp chart may not be accurate with Tmax Developer. It requires less compensation for temp differences than some other developers, so 7 minutes may be too long.

You'll need to shoot a test roll to be sure, before you shoot anything important.

 

[WJJ3]

Ilford's temp chart may not be accurate with Tmax Developer. It requires less compensation for temp differences than some other developers, so 7 minutes may be too long.

You'll need to shoot a test roll to be sure, before you shoot anything important.

Thanks Christopher!

You are right, the Tmax Developer data sheet shows only one minute decrease between 20° and 24°C, which is less time reduction than the Ilford chart shows. All this would mean that Tmax Dev. mixed at 1:9 would likely require more than 7 minutes at 26°C, no?

In light of this, I'm thinking that I can develop my HP5+ in Tmax Dev. 1:4 at 26°C for the Kodak recommended 5 min.

 

[PKR]

Ilford's temp chart may not be accurate with Tmax Developer. It requires less compensation for temp differences than some other developers, so 7 minutes may be too long.

You'll need to shoot a test roll to be sure, before you shoot anything important.

I completely agree. Always test and record your time, temp and agitation cycle.

In warm temps, I've water bath-ed my chemistry to keep the temp constant. If your wash water is high temp, you're stuck. It's most important not to vary the chemistry temp between stages, Incl wash. I'm sure Chris will agree.

Have fun.

 

[Beemermark]

The developer temp is the critical temperature, 26C is way too hot and 3.5 min is way to short for consistent results. A few degrees warmer water for the stop bath and wash affect anything. Do you have ice? Make a water and ice mixture in a tray and set your developer in that until it cools down.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Thanks Christopher!

You are right, the Tmax Developer data sheet shows only one minute decrease between 20° and 24°C, which is less time reduction than the Ilford chart shows. All this would mean that Tmax Dev. mixed at 1:9 would likely require more than 7 minutes at 26°C, no?

In light of this, I'm thinking that I can develop my HP5+ in Tmax Dev. 1:4 at 26°C for the Kodak recommended 5 min.

Yeah, you're right. It probably does need a longer than 7 minute time, not a shorter time. I did the math wrong.

 

[WJJ3]

I completely agree. Always test and record your time, temp and agitation cycle.

In warm temps, I've water bath-ed my chemistry to keep the temp constant. If your wash water is high temp, you're stuck. It's most important not to vary the chemistry temp between stages, Incl wash. I'm sure Chris will agree.

Have fun.

The developer temp is the critical temperature, 26C is way too hot and 3.5 min is way to short for consistent results. A few degrees warmer water for the stop bath and wash affect anything. Do you have ice? Make a water and ice mixture in a tray and set your developer in that until it cools down.

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Getting my developer down to 20 C is not the problem, it's keeping it there for the 6.5 min it's in the tank. I've measured the developer temp as high as 24 C when I pour it out of the tank. In the summer here I turn my cooler on full blast for several hours and my bathroom where I do my developing doesn't get close to 20 C.

Being that Kodak's recommended temp is 24 C, I'm pretty sure 26 C will be fine once I figure out the correct time.

 

[Perks]

In summer i get hot water out of the tap and add ice cubes to the delveloper solution.
I havent measured it but even in a warm environment i doubt your solution is going to rise from say 20 to 24 degrees over the 6.5minutes reccomended. Even without a cool water bath.

 

[Freakscene]

Modern films work fine up to 30C. You just need consistent, well measured temperatures and good technique. Test and get it right, then stick to it.

Marty

 

[michaelwj]

I have the same issue in summer, the water comes out of the tap at 28-30 degrees. I use a lot of ice, as in measurements the concentrate, add ice, then fill to 10oz or whatever with water. If I start at about 18 degrees, then generally it'll be about 22 after 10 min. Sometimes I put the tank in the fridge between inversions if I feel it getting too hot. I also check the temp of the developer intermittently during the whole process just to keep tabs on it.

I think C41 will be easier in summer, it'll all be at 38 degrees!

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I find that it is impossible to process film in the summer where I live during the day, because the tap water is too hot, but I can get 68 degree water at night!

 

[michaelwj]

I find that it is impossible to process film in the summer where I live during the day, because the tap water is too hot, but I can get 68 degree water at night!

I find it hard to get the film on the reels in a change bag in the day anyway, too sweaty! Always at night in summer, but the water is still hot. On the plus side, the hot water bill is very small!

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

Metering a grey card or any similar surface, shoot a scene including pure white and pure black or a card with grays, say, 8 times in a row.
In a darkroom or a dark bag cut that strip from the roll, cut it in three parts and put them inside a black plastic roll film can.
The first development you'll do, will be close... The second one might be spot on...

 

[Beemermark]

I live on the coast in North Carolina, water temp is about 80 deg and most days my newish whole house HVAC can't keep the house temp below 78 deg. That said I have no problem processing at 20C / 68F. Usually (whatever developer I'm using) I mix 1:1. So first I get the tap or distilled water down to about 60F or lower. I do it with either an ice bath in trays, ice in the mixing water or (if I think of it before hand) by putting a gallon of water in the 'frig the night before.

I process in SS tanks and while developing (usually on the order of 9 minutes) I put the tank in an 8x10 tray that I've pre-filled with 68F water. If my stop bath and/or fixer is really hot (>90F) I've put those in the freezer for maybe 15~30 minutes beforehand to cool off.

A plus to longer development with diluted mixtures is that the developer is pretty much exhausted so over development is unlikely. Longer development times (within reason) lead to more consistent contrast.

But to each his own.

 

[WJJ3]

Modern films work fine up to 30C. You just need consistent, well measured temperatures and good technique. Test and get it right, then stick to it.

Marty

Thanks, yeah, I think 26° C will be fine!

I have the same issue in summer, the water comes out of the tap at 28-30 degrees. I use a lot of ice, as in measurements the concentrate, add ice, then fill to 10oz or whatever with water. If I start at about 18 degrees, then generally it'll be about 22 after 10 min. Sometimes I put the tank in the fridge between inversions if I feel it getting too hot. I also check the temp of the developer intermittently during the whole process just to keep tabs on it.

I think C41 will be easier in summer, it'll all be at 38 degrees!

It sounds like your heat situation is a little more extreme than mine! And Im not surprised to hear your temps are going up that much over the developing duration because that is what I have experienced too. The Tmax Developer I have been using the past couple years requires agitation every 30 seconds, so that may also contribute to the rise in temperature in the developing tank.

I try to keep my film chemistry separate from my edibles so I won't be putting my tank in the fridge 😉

That's cool you are doing your own C41!

I find that it is impossible to process film in the summer where I live during the day, because the tap water is too hot, but I can get 68 degree water at night!

That's a big temp variation! I wish I could get that cool water at night here!
Daytime is for shooting anyway 🙂

Metering a grey card or any similar surface, shoot a scene including pure white and pure black or a card with grays, say, 8 times in a row.
In a darkroom or a dark bag cut that strip from the roll, cut it in three parts and put them inside a black plastic roll film can.
The first development you'll do, will be close... The second one might be spot on...

Thanks for the guidance! I have always just followed maker's recomendations and gotten good results, so this is the first time I have been tasked with trying to find the proper developing time on my own. I think I will give your suggestion a go!

I live on the coast in North Carolina, water temp is about 80 deg and most days my newish whole house HVAC can't keep the house temp below 78 deg. That said I have no problem processing at 20C / 68F. Usually (whatever developer I'm using) I mix 1:1. So first I get the tap or distilled water down to about 60F or lower. I do it with either an ice bath in trays, ice in the mixing water or (if I think of it before hand) by putting a gallon of water in the 'frig the night before.

I process in SS tanks and while developing (usually on the order of 9 minutes) I put the tank in an 8x10 tray that I've pre-filled with 68F water. If my stop bath and/or fixer is really hot (>90F) I've put those in the freezer for maybe 15~30 minutes beforehand to cool off.

A plus to longer development with diluted mixtures is that the developer is pretty much exhausted so over development is unlikely. Longer development times (within reason) lead to more consistent contrast.

But to each his own.

Thanks for you comments! It is definitely inspiring to hear you are putting in the effort to keep 20° C throughout the developing cycle in the hot weather. I have considered using a cold water bath to set my tank in during developing to keep the temp inside from rising, and I still think it is a reasonable option. Particularly for the reason that you mention of a longer developing time giving more consistent results.

Cheers

 

[jbielikowski]

I store my chemicals in bathroom that's always hotter than 20C, and I use Ultrafin Plus which has a chart for higher temps: x0.75 for 24C and x0.6 for 26C, no problems so far.

 

[mod2001]

I put Dev, Fix and Stop into the refrigerator for half an hour in Summer and develop always at 20° because i prefer in general longer processing times, less stress for me. Besides, I tested all my usual combos at 20°.

Many sites say higher temperatures lead to more grain, and too high temperature differences between the 3 baths could have also some negative effect (forgot the exact name). Never tried, so can't say this is really the case.

Yogi

 

[giganova]

I put all my chemicals into the kitchen sink with a bath of ice cubes to bring the temp down to 68 degrees = 20C. While it is true that the 500ml or so developer warms up a little over the 8 minutes I develop, I never turned out to be a problem. To mintage the problem, I shorten the developing time by 15 sec.