HU: Noctilux price increase effective January 1, 2008

[Roger Hicks]

I think few people would have made a mistake engaging in the buying and selling of properties in the last 24 months (or stocks and shares).

Unless of course they were buying on buy-to-let mortgages, or with heavy leverages -- a classic house of cards in a falling market. And I fear that quite a few DID buy that way.

Cheers,

R.

 

[johnastovall]

Glad I got my like new one off of eBay in early Dec. for a lot less....

 

[pfoto]

I would agree. Leica prices increase over the long-term so I think if you bought the one currently in the classifieds for $5K you would be doing OK. Ridiculous price but that is the market. That particular lens looks to be in good condition and doesn't have the attached hood, which many would consider an advantage.

 

[Hacker]

I noticed that the older lenses have the brown coating while the later ones look green (of the current model). Have the coatings been updated?

 

[ampguy]

Hi John

Hi John

Mike L has a great one in the Classifieds now.

After his sells, I may post mine here again, but it likely wouldn't go for less than Mike's very fair price.

I made up my mind, I want one of these f1 lenses. Don't want to debate if they are worth the price or not. Here is my question, is now the time to buy? Do these f1 babies go up and down in price? I have not been able to get much historical info on this. I have no problem paying the current 5K price for a used one, but just a year ago they were much less. Am I buying one at the top or are these lenses going to continue to go up in price? I haven't been around the Lieca camp long enough to have a feel for it.

 

[edhohoho]

I made up my mind, I want one of these f1 lenses. Don't want to debate if they are worth the price or not. Here is my question, is now the time to buy? Do these f1 babies go up and down in price? I have not been able to get much historical info on this. I have no problem paying the current 5K price for a used one, but just a year ago they were much less. Am I buying one at the top or are these lenses going to continue to go up in price? I haven't been around the Lieca camp long enough to have a feel for it.

Over the past year and a half, I have only seen the prices go steadily upward at a quick pace (we're talking about $2600 for a version 3 and $3300 for a version 4 back then when I started looking). Usually the older versions sell for less, but now that the brand new price has risen, everything is being dragged upwards. When I was looking for a Noctilux, I was offered an older version 3 (with the pin-mounted hood, but an aftermarket hood was substituted for the missing original hood) for only a couple hundred less than the current model (version 4 with built-in hood, but with the older white colored box, ~$4500). Being picky, I held out for the latest version 4 in the silver box (no 6-bit coding) but lost to the highest bidder--that one went for $5000. Incidentally, that same Noctilux is back on the auction block as we speak. Very nice example, but I am no longer in the market for one.

The one in the classifieds is a later 3rd version with the clip-on hood, which would be my personal choice if I were to buy an older version. Nice to see that it comes with the original box too.

Not sure about the coatings, but with the latest version, at least you are sure to have any updated coating if indeed a change was made over the decades.

 

[Hacker]

I made up my mind, I want one of these f1 lenses.

I made the mistake of waiting when I could get one for $4.3 new and coded 2 months ago. Now, it is $6k, a $1.7k differential due to indecisiveness and procrastination.

Stocks are running low, so make hay while the sun shines. When you decide to get one, the shops will quote you a price but they will not have stocks!

 

[edhohoho]

I made the mistake of waiting when I could get one for $4.3 new and coded 2 months ago. Now, it is $6k, a $1.7k differential due to indecisiveness and procrastination.

Stocks are running low, so make hay while the sun shines. When you decide to get one, the shops will quote you a price but they will not have stocks!

I am not sure exactly how dealers get their allotted stock, but as I mentioned at the beginning of my thread, my local store took several days to get back to me and when they did, they said it would still take 7-10 days to get one so they definitely didn't have one in stock at the time. Then there was a dealer in New York who said he had six on order since March 2007, and another dealer in Australia who had three on order but said the earliest they would get them is March 2008 due to some availability issue of the special glass used in the lens. So I have no idea how the dealer orders will get filled.

Someone also posted on another forum that the Noctilux is in stock at Amazon.com through Ace Photo (or something like that) for $5995. Not sure if that is real stock, but could be.

 

[Olsen]

Olsen: "Today the same guy makes more than 100,000 $ - mostly due to the dollar fall."

The market giveth and the market taketh away. I wouldn't go buying any investment real estate on the strength of that kind of salary.

/T

My sister's daughter & husband just bought a flat at Manhattan NY. As a sort of investment and holiday home. From when the day they signed the contract to they transfered the money they saved more than 50.000 NOK (about 9,500 $). Due to the fall of the dollar value in between. One of my clients bought a holiday condo in Florida (some place I don't know the name of) and made a similar deal. So, we are on a buying spree right now.

As for real estate prices here in Oslo, Norway, they have started falling too, but not so drastic as in the US. Here the fall is driven by higher/increased interest rates. Not unemployment and a 15% inflation of energy cost. Further, banks over here are not allowed to push morgages down people's throats that they obviously can't pay back. If they do they can risk loosing the deal.

 

[jbf]

<rant mode on>

I have little sympathy for those who were "pushed" into buying homes they could not afford here. These people knew they couldn't afford these homes, they just didn't care. They wanted them anyway. If you make $60,000 a year, you can't afford a $350,000 home. The math is simple. It doesn't take a genius. Yet, people were doing just that. The biggest mistake we can make now is to bail them out.

<rant mode off>

I dont think it's quite fair of you to put the blame entirely on the people buying homes.

The fact that it all stemmed from these sub-prime mortgages... These rates have a very low introductory rate but after the deal is made, the interest rates skyrocket. If lenders (ie banks) would have actually looked at peoples credit history and their income, they would have known that the family could not afford the mortgage to begin with.

It is ultimately the lenders fault for giving them the money when they (the banks) should have known from the very start that the buyers/loanee's were not going to be able to make payments.

Sure, blame can also be had on the individuals who went ahead with buying these $350,000 dollar homes on a $60,000 sallary, but you also have to admit that it's just as much of a fault of the bank for unethical business practices in order to 'gain profits' at the expense of the individuals. They should have known that it would only lead to a housing market crash and the economy with it.

 

[Olsen]

Yeah, I understand all of that. A lot of crooks in the lending industry took advantage of a lot of greedy people by lending them money they couldn't afford to pay back.

But, I don't want the fools bailed out. These people losing their homes is simply a tax on the stupid. Maybe they won't be so stupid next time.

The number of foreclosures and people with debt up to their ears are so large in USA that it is a national problem. Someway and somehow they have to be helped out. Norwegian law is very clear on this matter; it's the bank's responsibility. They are the professionals that shall evaluate how realistic it is that certain creditors to have finances strong enough to carry a certain debt burden. If they havn't done this job thoroughly the deal is illegal. And it is the bank's and it's shareholders responsibility. 'To indept people' is a smart new (well, old actually) way of enslavement. Look up the 'emerging economies' - like China, Thailand, India etc., and you will find an 'inferno of debt' to ordinary people indebted to banks in hair-raising deals which would be obviously illegal in a civilized country (excuse my expression, 'financial civilization', at least) Sub prime loans has been big business in USA. The financial world of USA has prospered enormously from this trade, selling 'packages' of these loans on to banks all over the world. It has now come to that banks elsewhere won't take more 'american papers' and the dollar has halved is value in three years and a M8 cost the double of what it normally should. - So, you ordinary americans should have already picked up the bill. At least a part of it. While millions of US households are struggling with unmanagable mortgage payments, falling house values, Wall Street excecutives are awarding themselves record high bonuses for 2007. Here you find the guys who should really take the responsibility for the deep trouble of these house owners - and the whole of USA, eventually. But that will never happen, it seems to. Because they are politically protected by two political parties that both seems unwilling to send the bill to one of their best beneficiaries of political finance contribution. It is not small potatoes these excecutives are raking in. Only the four largest investment firms on Wall Street, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterns have payed out nearly 30 billion US $ to their excecutives (a few hundred people). 30 billion dollars! That is six times the norwegian defense budget. Including all the investment firms on Wall Street and the bonuses is at least up 14% since 2006 and ends at 50 billion dollars. (Compare this to: The entire budget for The City of New York with 250.000 employees are some 57 billion dollars). That's the sort of pay a few people get to put a whole nation into economical jeopardy. How they can be brought to, at least, contribute to picking up the bill should have been an issue in the forecoming presidential election, but it i't.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Yeah, I understand all of that. A lot of crooks in the lending industry took advantage of a lot of greedy people by lending them money they couldn't afford to pay back.

But, I don't want the fools bailed out. These people losing their homes is simply a tax on the stupid. Maybe they won't be so stupid next time.

Seconded. But I do like the Norwegian idea (also found here in France) that companies that prey on the foolish should be penalized. And it's hard not to feel sorry for stupid people who were stitched up by the companies.

Before I moved to France I was considering a bridging loan so I could sell my house in the UK after buying here. The lender's agent's advice? "Lie on the form..."

I preferred not to.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Olsen,

Could you possibly edit your last post into paragraphs? I find the solid block of text almost impossible to read.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Olsen]

Dear Olsen,

Could you possibly edit your last post into paragraphs? I find the solid block of text almost impossible to read.

Cheers,

R.

..... it came out this way 'by itself'. How do I do this/change?

 

[Olsen]

The number of foreclosures and people with debt up to their ears are so large in USA that it is a national problem. Someway and somehow they have to be helped out.

Norwegian law is very clear on this matter; it's the bank's responsibility. They are the professionals that shall evaluate how realistic it is that certain creditors to have finances strong enough to carry a certain debt burden. If they havn't done this job thoroughly the deal is illegal. And it is the bank's and it's shareholders responsibility.

'To indept people' is a smart new (well, old actually) way of enslavement. Look up the 'emerging economies' - like China, Thailand, India etc., and you will find an 'inferno of debt' to ordinary people indebted to banks in hair-raising deals which would be obviously illegal in a civilized country (excuse my expression, 'financial civilization', at least)

Sub prime loans has been big business in USA. The financial world of USA has prospered enormously from this trade, selling 'packages' of these loans on to banks all over the world. It has now come to that banks elsewhere won't take more 'american papers' and the dollar has halved is value in three years and a M8 cost the double of what it normally should. - So, you ordinary americans should have already picked up the bill. At least a part of it.

While millions of US households are struggling with unmanagable mortgage payments, falling house values, Wall Street excecutives are awarding themselves record high bonuses for 2007. Here you find the guys who should really take the responsibility for the deep trouble of these house owners - and the whole of USA, eventually. But that will never happen, it seems to. Because they are politically protected by two political parties that both seems unwilling to send the bill to one of their best beneficiaries of political finance contribution.

It is not small potatoes these excecutives are raking in. Only the four largest investment firms on Wall Street, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterns have payed out nearly 30 billion US $ to their excecutives (a few hundred people). 30 billion dollars! That is six times the norwegian defense budget. Including all the investment firms on Wall Street and the bonuses is at least up 14% since 2006 and ends at 50 billion dollars. (Compare this to: The entire budget for The City of New York with 250.000 employees are some 57 billion dollars).

That's the sort of pay a few people get to put a whole nation into economical jeopardy. How they can be brought to, at least, contribute to picking up the bill should have been an issue in the forecoming presidential election, but it isn't.

A try to fix it.
​

 

[Hacker]

I am not sure exactly how dealers get their allotted stock, but as I mentioned at the beginning of my thread, my local store took several days to get back to me and when they did, they said it would still take 7-10 days to get one so they definitely didn't have one in stock at the time.

Wait times for some of us have been very, very long, without any specific date as to delivery. Now, I'm told that Leica has dealers forecasting for the entire year what they need. In essence, get it now, or prepare to wait and see possible further hikes in price as the Noctilux is supposed to go the way of the 75 Lux.

 

[Olsen]

Olsen, the only possible hope for the US economy is a lot of pain for US citizens. The administration is, as usual, already talking about tax cuts and ways to make it easier for people to refinance homes so they can more easily take the remaining equity in those homes (assuming there is any) and go out and but more 60" LCD TV's. That, when the government is running huge deficits.

There is more than enough blame for greed and avarice to go around in this country. There is also enough sense of entitlement among the young adults in this country to keep us on this unsustainable rush to economic disaster. And there is no bailout or economic stimulus package that is going to fix our problems. We simply need to make fundamental changes for which there is no political or personal will.

You are absolutely right. It will be nothing but blood, sweat and tears.

- And that is why I warn particularly norwegian students studying in USA who might have found a girl/boyfriend over there and are considdering staying: 'Come home!'. I also give this advice to young americans; 'try your luck in Europe'. It is a far better place to live. At least for a generation or two.

Sorry, but I have no belief in that 'tax cuts' are the right medicine for USA today. All the 'high quality' nations I know of (Denmark, Sweden, etc.) have 'high taxes'. Taxes should be increased. Particularly higher taxes for the super rich and within the energy sector and the financial world, like taxes or fees on stock trade and lifting the tax free status on oil consessions. - The last president who tried this drove past The Grassy Knoll in Dallas. And that was it. It hasn't been tried since.

 

[Hacker]

Not sure about the coatings, but with the latest version, at least you are sure to have any updated coating if indeed a change was made over the decades.

A forum member loaned me his (current version) to see whether I would like it. I made up my mind as the handling of the weight was manageable. I got a new one and noticed the different coatings. Anyway, we plan to meet again and do some shooting soon. Perhaps a side by side photo shoot.

 

[Olsen]

Surely an assessment of the value of goods depends in part upon comparing the costs of manufacture to the sale costs. So does anyone know what it costs Leica to make these lenses? Or what profit margin the middlemen (dealers) take? The answers might assist an objective assessment of whether the items represent good "value" for the end buyers (in narrow financial terms of course--obviously "value" can here carry a myriad of other meanings...).

Regards,
D.O'K.


D.O'K.

In my local currency the price of the Noctilux has fallen, people tell me. It cost once 36.000 NOK (VAT incl.). Now it costs 32.000 NOK. So, what price increase are you talking of?

The only thing the Leica managment has been forced to do is to compensate for currency fluctuations between Euros and other currencies. - By the way, I doubt that the Noctilux really has increased in price in £. Have you checked this?

Further; Leica is hardly making a profit at all, untill 2007. Up until then they sold us the goods for less the price it cost to make & distribute it.

Nice of'em, he?