bmattock
Veteran
I sold a couple photos recently and finally got the checks, and Cameta Camera is selling the Sigma SD14 body only on eBoy for $399 USD, plus eBoy themselves sent me a 10% off coupon.
I've been on the fence about this forever. My *ist DS is getting a little long in the tooth, but it is still plugging away. I've got Pentax stuff for digital, notwithstanding my older M42 and T-mount lenses, not Sigma SA mount (yes, I know they're similar, but I don't want to chop on either lens or camera mount). I really am hoping to get a K200D before my *ist DS gives up the ghost (don't need a 20D, really). But at the price - I could not say no.
I've read all the good and bad about Foveon - the 14 megapixel sensor isn't really that, since it is 4.7 mp x 3, so the image itself is much smaller. It's slow, clunky, not good at high ISO, and so on. But when I see the skin tones and the rich colors that come out of those foveon sensors...man, I just want one.
Besides, I figure at this price, I can sell it for at least that if I really decide I hate it.
I am guessing that this is the last clear-out of the SD14 bodies, with the SD15 coming in. I'd love the SD15, but I can make do with the SD14 for the enormous difference in price. So unless there is a truly massive stash of these in some warehouse, this is probably a 'get it now' kind of deal. Just a guess.
Anyway, thought I'd pass it on, in case anyone else was thinking about it. That's about the best price I've seen from a legitimate camera retailer.
FYI, I've done business with Cameta before, both in person (they're in Amityville, NY) and via eBoy. They do that usual 'you have to call to confirm your order' thing and then they try to sell you some overpriced accessories - just like the shady Brooklyn camera dealers. But, they do take 'no' for an answer (some of their guys are a tad rude about it, I ignore them). They are legit, based on my experience, for whatever that's worth to you.
I've been on the fence about this forever. My *ist DS is getting a little long in the tooth, but it is still plugging away. I've got Pentax stuff for digital, notwithstanding my older M42 and T-mount lenses, not Sigma SA mount (yes, I know they're similar, but I don't want to chop on either lens or camera mount). I really am hoping to get a K200D before my *ist DS gives up the ghost (don't need a 20D, really). But at the price - I could not say no.
I've read all the good and bad about Foveon - the 14 megapixel sensor isn't really that, since it is 4.7 mp x 3, so the image itself is much smaller. It's slow, clunky, not good at high ISO, and so on. But when I see the skin tones and the rich colors that come out of those foveon sensors...man, I just want one.
Besides, I figure at this price, I can sell it for at least that if I really decide I hate it.
I am guessing that this is the last clear-out of the SD14 bodies, with the SD15 coming in. I'd love the SD15, but I can make do with the SD14 for the enormous difference in price. So unless there is a truly massive stash of these in some warehouse, this is probably a 'get it now' kind of deal. Just a guess.
Anyway, thought I'd pass it on, in case anyone else was thinking about it. That's about the best price I've seen from a legitimate camera retailer.
FYI, I've done business with Cameta before, both in person (they're in Amityville, NY) and via eBoy. They do that usual 'you have to call to confirm your order' thing and then they try to sell you some overpriced accessories - just like the shady Brooklyn camera dealers. But, they do take 'no' for an answer (some of their guys are a tad rude about it, I ignore them). They are legit, based on my experience, for whatever that's worth to you.
gavinlg
Veteran
I get the feeling that the sd14 has an older generation sensor in comparison to the dp1 and the sd15, which will share their sensors. Just looking at flickr examples of the sd14, I don't like the output as much as the DP1.
I would personally wait for either the sd15 or buy a dp1.
I agree with you though, they definitely have a richness in them that isn't present with bayer sensored cameras. I'm going to Japan next year with some friends and I'll be buying a dp1 and a small carbon tripod to take with me, instead of anything else. I want to be able to try and capture the feeling of the places I go, and I think at the moment the foveon sigmas do that better than any other digital camera.
I would personally wait for either the sd15 or buy a dp1.
I agree with you though, they definitely have a richness in them that isn't present with bayer sensored cameras. I'm going to Japan next year with some friends and I'll be buying a dp1 and a small carbon tripod to take with me, instead of anything else. I want to be able to try and capture the feeling of the places I go, and I think at the moment the foveon sigmas do that better than any other digital camera.
bmattock
Veteran
I could be mistaken, but I think the SD14, SD15, and DP1 share the same sensor. However, the processing engine has been upgraded in the latter two (I believe they call it 'TRUE II'), and that may well account for the difference you see in image quality - they say it makes the camera quite a bit faster.
I also like the DP1, but would rather have the upcoming DP2, as I prefer the longer focal length and wider aperture for the type of photography I most often find myself doing. However, it's a moot point for me - the budget rules. At $399 - 10% discount from eBoy, I felt the choice was made for me. I could not have afforded the others at all, so it was a choice of this or nothing.
I must confess, I am looking forward to getting my hands on it. I am prepared (I hope) not to be disappointed by its well-documented shortcomings, but intend to play to its strengths, which I hope will complement the manner in which I intend to use it.
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gavinlg
Veteran
Well when you get it, I'd be super interested in hearing your thoughts on it and seeing some samples.
Cheers
Cheers
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Foveon images are amazing. There are adapters, right? You could probably use Pentax screwmount glass on the SD14 and make yourself quite an amazing daylight camera.
Ruvy
Established
SD14 is amazing. Despite some limitations I am using it with great joy - images are superb as long as you shoot with adequate light. DP1 is a different animal - a fixed lens that does better in low light. If you are short on cash at this price its one of the best purchases you can make. Get one lens (17-70) or one of their primes and an adapter to m42 and manually use all your pentax lenses. If you are not short on cash wait for the SD15 or DP2.
bmattock
Veteran
Yes, there are adapters. One route is simple - use M42 screw mount lenses with either M42->SA mount adapter, or some people report you can use an M42->P/K adapter as well (the SA mount is physically very similar to the P/K mount).
One fellow on eBoy makes custom mounting plates that replace the SA mount on the camera with either a Nikon or a Leica-R mount, so those lenses then mount right up with no modification - but the camera is more-or-less permanently converted to use those lenses only at that point. Supposedly the conversion can be reversed. You do not gain AF thereby - the lenses remain strictly MF and you must stop down manually as well.
Some customized lenses - I am told the Contax C/Y mount has been removed from the rear of some Zeiss Planar C/Y lenses and replaced with an SA mounting plate with some success. Again, manual everything. Also, some have noted that Canon EOS electrical inputs are identical to the SA inputs (so that would mean it has a modified Pentax P/K mount, but a Canon EOS electrical interface). Apparently, some have modified Canon EOS lenses and managed to keep the AE and AF functions, although IS seems not to work.
So there are some options, depending on how far you wish to go. For myself, I think that an M42->SA adapter might be a good way to get started. It is cheap, no harm to either lens or camera, and it enforces the rather slow and deliberate way that the SD14 appears to want to be used in any case. The camera is not perfect, I've read of many of its faults, but many of them seem to be centered around the camera not being particularly effective in roles it probably should not be used for in the first place. It's not a sports or action camera, probably not a good family snapshot camera, auto-everything won't give generally good results under lots of conditions, which means it is not a beginner's camera.
It seems to respond best when shot in RAW format, using careful metering, intentional and deliberate composition, and lenses that can take full advantage of that Foveon sensor. I am looking forward to mounting a couple of my old M42 lenses on it and see what they can do. Pity I can't use my Canon FD glass, wouldn't that be nice?
bmattock
Veteran
I agree, but I don't think I'll be using my Pentax lenses on it. From what I read, it appears that the protruding AA lever and shroud on Pentax lenses have to be cut off to make the rear of the lens mount flush, then the Pentax P/K lenses will mount. But it kind of ruins them for use on anything else. I'll stick with my M42 lenses for now, I think (including Pentax M42, of course).
As to the DP2 and SD15 - well, maybe I'll win the lottery. I usually toss in a buck a week, so there's always a chance, however small.
bmattock
Veteran
FYI - Cameta now has them for $349. I don't regret buying mine for $399, but I actually wish I had some extra dough to buy a second one. What a deal - for those interested, of course.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Have to admit I'm a bit tempted. But I'm pretty wild about the sensor in my Pentax, and don't think I need another DSLR....
...still, I would love to use a really fast lens with the Foveon sensor someday.
...still, I would love to use a really fast lens with the Foveon sensor someday.
bmattock
Veteran
It was a tough call for me - I really want to replace my 'getting long in the tooth' Pentax *ist DS with a K200D (don't need/want the K20D, but I think the K200D is fantastic), and now I'll have to wait some more to build back up some dosh. However, what finally knocked me off the fence to the Sigma was the one-two punch of the low price and some of the images I've seen people getting with the SD14.
I've not had mine long, and really haven't put it through it's paces yet. I can already see it is not as pointy-and-shooty as my Pentax, not a camera to do event shooting with, etc. And for some things, I'm not sure it beats my *ist DS, even with the older 6MP sensor in the Pentax. But I'm looking at it and hoping it will become a contemplative camera of choice for full-on manual, focus and settings, manual lenses, and careful composition. Used within its limitations, it appears that some people are getting incredible results from it. I don't know if I'll be able to, but I'm keen to try.
At the price, I guess if it turns out that I hate it, I can sell it and not lose much on the deal - then get the K200D if that's what calls out to me.
kuzano
Veteran
I've been kicking this one around for another reason
I've been kicking this one around for another reason
I've been on the fence with these low SD14 prices, but I have to tell you that I wouldn't buy the camera except for one other factor. The SD14 is "user changeable" to InfraRed. Now, having the skin tones with all the other issues may be justifiable, but having InfraRed as a bonus (Most cameras cost as much as this body to convert full time to infrared) could be the kicker that makes the deal.
I've been kicking this one around for another reason
I've been on the fence with these low SD14 prices, but I have to tell you that I wouldn't buy the camera except for one other factor. The SD14 is "user changeable" to InfraRed. Now, having the skin tones with all the other issues may be justifiable, but having InfraRed as a bonus (Most cameras cost as much as this body to convert full time to infrared) could be the kicker that makes the deal.