HuubL
hunter-gatherer
...After haven't shot analog for more than half a year, I finally got time for a bit of shooting my old cameras the last few weeks. Yesterday evening I developed three films of Fomapan 200, each from a different camera, together in one Paterson tank. OK, the 3/4 filled bottle of Amaloco had turned a bit dark, but I expected with a minute extra it to still be able to do what it was supposed to.
Heck, it was NOT!! I got three blank films out of the tank, with only the faintest hint of exposed silver that was there before the fixer had eaten it away.
Never had any problems with Amaloco before, but then again, I never used it so dark.
Anybody have experienced this with other Amaloco or other dissolved developers?
I ordered HC-110 as a replacement with hopes it will keep longer. Please let me know how to develop properly exposed Fomapan-200 in it.
Heck, it was NOT!! I got three blank films out of the tank, with only the faintest hint of exposed silver that was there before the fixer had eaten it away.
Never had any problems with Amaloco before, but then again, I never used it so dark.
Anybody have experienced this with other Amaloco or other dissolved developers?
I ordered HC-110 as a replacement with hopes it will keep longer. Please let me know how to develop properly exposed Fomapan-200 in it.
x-ray
Veteran
If the color starts to darken it's starting to oxidize. Your description is a relative term and it's hard to estimate how much it's finished in activity.
Film development is a reduction oxidation process. The silver halide in the emulsion is reduced tobmetalic silver (the image) and the developing agent is oxidized. It's an ionic exchange process. If your developer is oxidized then it has less potential to reduce the silver halide to metallic silver, the image. Obviously your developer was almost totally oxidized from the start. Oxidation can occur in the presence of O2 or without. Remembercoxdation is an ion exchange process and the ion doesn't have to be oxygen. Strange I know.
Best bet, if it's turning dark any amount, discard. I,be read people keeping Rodinal developer they've mixed at working strength, using it then trying to use it again later. Very bad idea. One screwup like this ruins the economy of trying to save developer. What was that about $15 in film? Best policy, if in doubt, throw it out. Poetic aren't I ;-).
HC 110 concentrate keeps a long time. if it's unopened it'll keep indefinitely. Opened I'd say a year or more. Dilute / stock solution (I think it's 1:15 but not sure) about a month or possibly 2. I'd test first. Working strength, don't keep it more than the session. One day it's probably on the way to going bad.
Film development is a reduction oxidation process. The silver halide in the emulsion is reduced tobmetalic silver (the image) and the developing agent is oxidized. It's an ionic exchange process. If your developer is oxidized then it has less potential to reduce the silver halide to metallic silver, the image. Obviously your developer was almost totally oxidized from the start. Oxidation can occur in the presence of O2 or without. Remembercoxdation is an ion exchange process and the ion doesn't have to be oxygen. Strange I know.
Best bet, if it's turning dark any amount, discard. I,be read people keeping Rodinal developer they've mixed at working strength, using it then trying to use it again later. Very bad idea. One screwup like this ruins the economy of trying to save developer. What was that about $15 in film? Best policy, if in doubt, throw it out. Poetic aren't I ;-).
HC 110 concentrate keeps a long time. if it's unopened it'll keep indefinitely. Opened I'd say a year or more. Dilute / stock solution (I think it's 1:15 but not sure) about a month or possibly 2. I'd test first. Working strength, don't keep it more than the session. One day it's probably on the way to going bad.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
In my experience, for much longer. I have a old bottle of HC-110 I keep around for process film and other uncritical tasks, which I put off mainstream duty some five or six years ago when it turned suspiciously brown. This year I picked that wrong bottle in a hurry and used it for a batch of film, and they turned out just as good as with the fresh one...
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Just curious, don't they sell those bottles, that could be squashed down to eliminate the air space, these days? Failing that the other solution was to buy a lot of kids' glass marbles, wash them and then drop them into the developer bottle to raise the liquid level and, again, eliminate the air space. And there's also those vacuum pumps they sell for storing half full/empty bottles of wine over night...
Regards, David
Just curious, don't they sell those bottles, that could be squashed down to eliminate the air space, these days? Failing that the other solution was to buy a lot of kids' glass marbles, wash them and then drop them into the developer bottle to raise the liquid level and, again, eliminate the air space. And there's also those vacuum pumps they sell for storing half full/empty bottles of wine over night...
Regards, David
mcfingon
Western Australia
B&H have got them David. Made by Kaiser and called accordion storage bottles:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318712-REG/Kaiser_204198_Accordion_Storage_Bottle.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/318712-REG/Kaiser_204198_Accordion_Storage_Bottle.html
Chromacomaphoto
Well-known
Are you saying that you have finally lost your marbles or that you have simply put them to better use?
lynnb
Veteran
I gave up on the black plastic accordion bottles - they seemed to admit air very slowly even when tightly stoppered. I use glass now to store concentrate once it's been mixed/opened.
Edit: ps Huub, sorry to hear about your misadventure! Hope it wasn't anything too important or not repeatable..
Edit: ps Huub, sorry to hear about your misadventure! Hope it wasn't anything too important or not repeatable..
oftheherd
Veteran
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I haven't checked, but I would expect the Massive Development Chart would give times and strengths for HC110. I seem to remember they may be some times on the bottles but I am not sure about that.
HC110 is favored by many for everything from normal to stand development.
HC110 is favored by many for everything from normal to stand development.
Merlijn53
Established
I had the same (well not exactly the same, my film was still useable) with Amaloco am74, which was only a little bit darker than it should be.
Other developers like Rodinal may be 5 years old and black and it still works like new. HC-110 is a good choice as well
Frank
charjohncarter
Veteran
I read that someone found a bottle of Rodinal in rubble more that 15 years after the War ended in Germany. Of course they had to try it. And it worked. This maybe a myth because I read it on the IN.
Timmyjoe
Veteran
My experience with HC-110 as well. I've got a bottle I bought in 2008 that I'm still using. It looks like dark maple syrup, but still works perfectly.
Have had the same experience with Rodinal. After many years, and looking like dark coffee, it still works fine.
Those are my main two B&W developers. I occasionally use D-76, but I mix that up in small batches and use it up in less than a month each time. I don't think that stuff keeps very long.
johnf04
Well-known
I have a 500ml bottle of Rodinal I bought in 2008 - it's a bit dark, but still works fine. I'm using it at 1:50 to make it last.
Fotohuis
Well-known
I suppose you meant Amaloco Photochemicals AM74. It is a very easy developer in use, however based on Hydroquinone-Phenidone.
Without opening the (Silar) bottle will lasts about 2 years. After opening the bottle will last 1/2 full about 6-7 months.
When new the color is very light Yellow. It is turning to Yellow, dark Yellow-Brown.
When it is going to dark Yellow you can not use it anymore.
Here a time table for the Fomapan films, incl. the AM74. AM74 is re-engineered by Rollei-SPUR to get out the high concentrate of Hydroquinone which is cancer suspected in higher concentrates. The new type is called Rollei Supergrain and you can use the AM74 data 1:1.
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Ontwikkeltijden.pdf
Here an example of FP400 in Rollei Supergrain 1+9 (6:00 minutes at 20C):
Here is the Dutch data sheet for AM74:
http://www.amaloco.nl/pdf/am74_nl.pdf
In HC-110 all components are dissolved in Glycol. It is a very thick sirup. However due to the lack of water you can keep HC-110 3-4 years. If you sqeeze the bottle and when over half consumption you can put the rest in glass bottles so that 4 years is possible.
Other developers with the same Glycol trick: Pyrocat-HD(C) from Sandy King. Also good for at least 2-3 years. Both Supergrain, HC-110 and Pyrocat-HDC are available in the well known Dutch web shop in analogue and darkroom materials.
Best regards,
Robert
(Former export manager from Amaloco Photochemicals for Middle- and East- Europe.)
Without opening the (Silar) bottle will lasts about 2 years. After opening the bottle will last 1/2 full about 6-7 months.
When new the color is very light Yellow. It is turning to Yellow, dark Yellow-Brown.
When it is going to dark Yellow you can not use it anymore.
Here a time table for the Fomapan films, incl. the AM74. AM74 is re-engineered by Rollei-SPUR to get out the high concentrate of Hydroquinone which is cancer suspected in higher concentrates. The new type is called Rollei Supergrain and you can use the AM74 data 1:1.
http://www.fotohuisrovo.nl/documentatie/Ontwikkeltijden.pdf
Here an example of FP400 in Rollei Supergrain 1+9 (6:00 minutes at 20C):
Here is the Dutch data sheet for AM74:
http://www.amaloco.nl/pdf/am74_nl.pdf
In HC-110 all components are dissolved in Glycol. It is a very thick sirup. However due to the lack of water you can keep HC-110 3-4 years. If you sqeeze the bottle and when over half consumption you can put the rest in glass bottles so that 4 years is possible.
Other developers with the same Glycol trick: Pyrocat-HD(C) from Sandy King. Also good for at least 2-3 years. Both Supergrain, HC-110 and Pyrocat-HDC are available in the well known Dutch web shop in analogue and darkroom materials.
Best regards,
Robert
(Former export manager from Amaloco Photochemicals for Middle- and East- Europe.)