I got into trouble. KIEV TROUBLE!

[Semushkin]

Comrades,

Recently I took part in the discussion in a thread called "Kiev Users, tell me why"

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53775

arguing for the Zorki side, as a loyal FedZorkist. Unffortunately though, or perhaps fortunately, the virus of Kievaholism entered my bloodstream and resulted in a severe G.A.S. flareup. I decided to find out by myself, "Why Kiev indeed?" and am now the owner of a 1964 Kiev-4 that seems to be functioning very smoothly, smells of new oil, has a quiet shutter and the speeds are near perfect. Mechanically it may not be up to Ruben standards, it is my first Kiev after all and I can't compare, but it does seem fine (the seller, a reputable one, advertised it as CLA'd and guarrantees it for 90 days)

THERE IS A PROBLEM though. It is a Kiev after all! (just kidding Ruben!)

The light meter is dead or at least comatose. I don't like that. It irks me. My FED 4a from the same year has a spot-on meter! Now if I return this machine to the seller, I lose shipping costs both ways, and it seems in great shape otherwise...(I am testing it with film as we speak)

Oleg seems to have new selenium cells in stock, so my question to the Kiev experts is: How difficult is it to replace the cell and calibrate the new one? I have done some tinkering with FEDs before, but am no self-CLA expert. Where do I find directions for this task? KSS does not appear to cover this.

I should have gotten a meterless one probably but I got trigger-happy.

I can see now the charm of the Kiev. The feel is different. That shutter whisper is something else indeed.

Your help to a beginner Kievaholic would be greatly appreciated.

Semushkin

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Before you replace the meter cell- try giving it a little massage. Open the meter door, and (somewhat) firmly push the meter cell and wiggle it a bit. Works on my Contax IIIa. I think the electrical contacts get dirty, and this helps it out. I've done this to two different Contax meters with good luck.

After all, if it's dead, can't lose anything by trying.

 

[ruben]

Hi Semushkin,
I too purchased 2 of Oleg's sellenium meter cells. They work but I have not installed them yet, for the simple reason that installing them will implicate another predator time full cla for the camera.

What I can say, and it is quite shallow, that disassembling the meter on the top of the camera is quite easy. On this opportunity you can take the plastic shell and give it a nice wash with kitchen soap and a tooth brush.

The Oleg cell comes with two wires, which you should find which one corresponds to which wire in your camera before taking out the old cell. Fortunately those 2 wires in the Oleg cell are of different shape, making things easy.

Go ahead without fear, If your present meter doesn't work, you don't have much to loose.

After checking the new installed meter responds to light, i,e. you have made a correct installation, behind or besides the meter compound you will find a hoole. The outer side is to fix the internal screw to the body. The internal screw is to calibrate the meter.

Besides this there may be an issue of a circular chip inside the meter calculator (the circular device with the f/stops and speeds numbers). They also influence the meter calibration, but unfortunately they are worn very much, although there is a metal foot on the circular calculator, you can move, determinating which areas of the chip it may contact.

Kindly remember that I don't have any practical experience in doing this job

But in my opinion, if your camera works to your satisfaction, it will be very unsensible to return it to the seller because of the meter.

It will make much more sense to ship the camera to Oleg and ask him to install the cell and calibrate the meter. If you appreciate the advantages of the meter, and the camera is worth, the price of the Oleg operation will be more than justifiable.

Furthermore, according to the status of the camera you could ask from Oleg a full CLA, which should include the the installation of the new cell, but not the price of the cell itself.

About the option of full CLA, clarify to Oleg you don't ask for a blind change of curtains, but only in case of need.

More than money, I think your main annoyance would be time. You MUST arm yourself with patience for a good Kiev. Having a good Kiev, Oleg CLA, with a new meter cell -- WOW !

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Semushkin]

Comrade Ruben,

I appreciate your help. Comrade Oleg has been contacted already! I will try it.

There is something about this Kiev...I still think though that the Zorki 3M has at least equal external build quality, and the viewfinder magnification and brightness makes up for the shorter rangefinder base, and is a great help in focusing in dark situations. Also dioptric correction is lacking in the Kiev... But that Kiev shutter is fascinating!

Yes, there is something about this Kiev...


Semushkin

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Just learned something interesting on a Zorki 3M- put a Nikkor 5cm F2 LTM lens on it. The RF can follow the Nikkor down to 2ft before the RF mechanism loses the connection. The Nikkor will focus to 18inches. Of course Parallax could be an issue...

 

[ruben]

Comrade Ruben,

I appreciate your help. Comrade Oleg has been contacted already! I will try it.

There is something about this Kiev...I still think though that the Zorki 3M has at least equal external build quality, and the viewfinder magnification and brightness makes up for the shorter rangefinder base, and is a great help in focusing in dark situations. Also dioptric correction is lacking in the Kiev... But that Kiev shutter is fascinating!

Yes, there is something about this Kiev...


Semushkin

Hi Semushkin,
I think you should follow your instincts. That diopter handle is worthy, no doubt.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Peter_Jones]

Just wondering at the possibility of fitting an adjustable diopter eyepiece from a scrap Fed4/5 ?

 

[giovatony]

Comrade Ruben,

I appreciate your help. Comrade Oleg has been contacted already! I will try it.

There is something about this Kiev...I still think though that the Zorki 3M has at least equal external build quality, and the viewfinder magnification and brightness makes up for the shorter rangefinder base, and is a great help in focusing in dark situations. Also dioptric correction is lacking in the Kiev... But that Kiev shutter is fascinating!

Yes, there is something about this Kiev...


Semushkin

In theory, the design of the focussing system in the Kiev / Contax design can be considered an improvement but the reality is when you combine the complications of the additional gearing , the lack of diopter adjustment, and possibly even more evident the unique requirement demanded to grip and focus this camera in actual use , these 3 elements can significantly detract from and reduce any theoretical or perceived benefits over more conventional designs. Not to mention the time that can be lost to assume this hand/finger position when the need for a quick snapshot is required to capture a fleeting moment.
And I won`t mention the lens focus lock aggrivation .
In real world useage any possible benefit of the Kiev/Contax design becomes more or less a moot point especially to those who do not use a Kiev as their one and only camera on a daily basis. Unless you shoot only with this camera and very often I might add to gain the practice and experience required of this camera you will have to think about what you must do differently each and every time you pick it up. It won`t always come naturally and you will often find the viewfinder inoperative due to your fingers blocking the RF window..

It isn`t my intention to exaggerate the faults I listed above but only to provide some balance and call attention to any claims of superiority. Personally I find the Kievs quite enoyable and not difficult to use . I like them very much but surely they are not a better design than the mainstream, at least not without some serious compromises. They are no better and probably no worse I suppose , just different.

More important to me is the diopter adjustment found on my Zorki`s . Combined with the large viefinder it is IMO a more important feature that is truly necessary to aid and enhance quick and accurate focussing.
John

 

[Semushkin]

... On this opportunity you can take the plastic shell and give it a nice wash with kitchen soap and a tooth brush.

...

Comrade, I opened the meter top last night, I did not seem to find a plastic shell except the plastic "glass" in front of the selenium. Everything else seemed metal.

Question: Is it possible to convert the Kiev 4 to a meterless 4a by exchanging top plates?

 

[Spyderman]

Question: Is it possible to convert the Kiev 4 to a meterless 4a by exchanging top plates?

Yes, it is, but there's more to it than just the top...

 

[ruben]

Comrade, I opened the meter top last night, I did not seem to find a plastic shell except the plastic "glass" in front of the selenium. Everything else seemed metal.
.........

That's exactly what I meant. Usually these pieces are very dirty, with some black verticals, giving the impression they were made this way on purpose. If yours is clean, a score in your favour.

 

[ruben]

..............
In real world useage any possible benefit of the Kiev/Contax design becomes more or less a moot point especially to those who do not use a Kiev as their one and only camera on a daily basis. Unless you shoot only with this camera and very often I might add to gain the practice and experience required of this camera you will have to think about what you must do differently each and every time you pick it up. It won`t always come naturally and you will often find the viewfinder inoperative due to your fingers blocking the RF window..
.............

I very much agree with this. Kievs are not for camera tourists. They are high loyalty demmanding partners.

But once you have got practice and became dexterous..... it is an extraordinary machine, paying you back perhaps more than what you think.
I think we can forgive the Contax designers and engineers, if they assumed at their time that in case you buy the most expensive camera of its time, you will not be jumping from camera brand to other brand each Friday🙂

So let's recapitulate. Kievs will not be much practical unless you, or a skilled technician has CLA-ed it. Then you have to gain practice in its manipulation. I have never used a Leica, but I ask myself at this moment if the Leica bottom loading requires less experience and dexterousity than the Contax grip.

But gaining practice in its manipulation is not just shooting, but also understanding how to best use it. (See my next post).

There are original eyefinder diopter attachments for the Kievs. Unfortunately the last three of Alex photo goods are at my home.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[ruben]

..........And I won`t mention the lens focus lock aggrivation . .............
John

I wanted to post a special article resuming several articles I dedicated to the Kiev focusing, and adding something else - what you are touching now, John.

The Contaxes were designed, as I said a dozen times by now, to give you not only the most accurate manual focusing, unchallenged up to day, but to give you at the same time the fastest one.

So where the annoying focusing lock enters the picture ? Were Contax designers plain idiots ? At least in this feature ?

Take your kiev and take out the lens, put it on a table and take a seat while the camera is pointed to shoot you.

You will observe that from 0.9m to infinity, the Kiev rotates the lens 270 grades ! Unsurpassed by any other camera.

But there is an optical problem here, which Contax designers not only are not responsible for, but even solved, setting the precedent for the further Japanese clones. Like any other rangefinder, or SLR, you have more room to rotate the lens at the near distances than at the far ones.

Since with the Contax design of 270 degrees of total rotation you have the widest possible range of rotation of all rangefinders, you also have the widest relative range from 5 meters to infinity.

Fine, but relatively to the Contax itself, its designers seem to have not been satisfyied with this relative small rotation for the far distances, and hence very much of the reason for the design of the small wheel, which multiplyies the 270 unsurpassable rotation per 4 times more !

Not the only reason, but surely one of them, to my opinion.

This of course doesn't mean you should use the small wheel for utmost perfection with every shot. But when you are shooting an object between 8 meters and infinity the lens rotation will be "restricted" to some 45 degrees only. But using at those instances the small wheel will provide you with a room of manoeuvre of 180 degrees, simplyfied for the user into just half a turn of the small wheel.

Half a turn of the small wheel for long distances, performed with a finger is as fast as rotating the lens in general. But two bonuses are attached: first, accuracy, of course. Secondly, you will never be blocked again by the infinity lock.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[spiderfrank]

I must say that, from the first time the Kiev was in my hands, I always used the focusing wheel, and took just five minuts to learn the "contax held", and never happened to me to have the focusing window darkened by my fingers... I like to use the focusing wheel, and I cannot understand why so many people find it so strange.

Franco

 

[oftheherd]

I must say that, from the first time the Kiev was in my hands, I always used the focusing wheel, and took just five minuts to learn the "contax held", and never happened to me to have the focusing window darkened by my fingers... I like to use the focusing wheel, and I cannot understand why so many people find it so strange.

Franco

Thanks for saying that. I thought I was just weird or something (I probably am no matter). I also like the focusing wheel. I think it is rather clever and useful. I am still working on the Kiev hold. It seems to work well to use my middle finger on the focus wheel and my index finger on the shutter release. And thanks to Rueben, I know why I had the light leaks. That will be fixed shortly, and away with the tape!

In all my time here at RFF I have never felt compelled to get a RF 35mm camera, being so happy with my Fujicas. I finally relented when I got something of a deal on a 4a with a Helios lens. The darn thing just sort of grows on one. It is compact and quiet just like my ST 901. I don't know if I would like a Fed or Zorki as well or not. Possibly. But I sort of have a like of Zeiss glass, even copied Zeiss. If they just had wider lenses than 35mm on the cheap. :bang:

 

[ruben]

............. If they just had wider lenses than 35mm on the cheap. :bang:

The cheapo feast must end somewhere. I think Cameraquest have new lenses of Contax fit and broader angles than 35mm. Unfortunately for me the 25/4 is $400 new.

Fortunately for me, so far I hardly use the 35mm focal length. So far.

But I would pay $400 today, had CV produced their 40/1.4 in Contax mount.



Cheers,
Ruben