I have bright viewfinder envy.

Wayne R. Scott

Wayne R. Scott

Half fast Leica User
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I have bright viewfinder envy.

Last week I visited a camera store and asked if they had any rangefinder cameras and the young clerk behind the counter said no they did not. As I was walking out of the store I noticed what looked like a Leica on a shelf in the outside display window. So I went back in and asked if I could look at it. It turns out that it was a Leica M2. After playing with it for a minute I was shocked at how bright the viewfinder patch was and how subjects snapped into focus. And I my Scottish wallet was in shock at the price tag on it.

Here are my questions.

1) Is the Leica M3 SS and DS similar to the Leica M2 in how bright the viewfinder seems to be?

2) How does the Canon P viewfinder compare to the Leica?

3) Lastly, and most importantly, how does the Contax IIA and Contax IIIA viewfinder compare after Henry S. has worked his magic on them?

I have the Contax bodies already with 21mm Biogon, 35mm Nikkor, 50mm f1.5 Sonnar, 85mm J-9, and 135mm Zeiss Sonnar.

Should I just get the bodies serviced? Or should I succumb to GAS and add the Canon P, Leica M2 and Leica M3 to my collection and then compare for myself?

Wayne
 
Tsk tsk, Wayne, you probably already know but you've just done what you were not supposed to do... the clerk in that store just wanted to save you from this !

I still remember the day when Francisco innocently passed me his Leica M6 for me to 'try' (aka become GASified), the first thought that went through my mind when I was looking through the finder was 'how did they manage to make things brighter when I look through this thing !?!?!'

At that time I was used to the dim vf on my Kiev and Zorki.

I'm trying to think on something different to say, but I can't, so yes, you have to get a P, M2 and M3.

Sorry, it's not probably what you wanted to read :D
 
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My M3 viewfinders, after CLA at Essex are like heads up displays. They are brighter and crisper than anything else I own. They are brighter than my M2, also CLA'd to viewfinder perfection. My Contax IIIa is in good shape, but not recently CLA'd so I can't comment about it. The Contax uses a tinted finder. The Leica is brighter than the Canon 7 viewfinder/RF patch and those have been CLA'd and are very bright. Enough said. And remember, I am a Nikon Fanatic. So it pains me to say that it is brighter than my Nikon SP's, including the two that I cleaned the viewfinders on that have not desilvered one bit. The SP does have a 1x finder and a built in finder for the 28mm and 35mm lens. And it does have multi-colored frame lines for 50-8.5-10.5-13.5 lenses that is really nice. And really bright RF Spot. But not as bright. It makes up for it in "sleek".
 
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Remember that, when it comes to viewfinders, brightness impresses the crowds -- but it's contrast that brings home the bacon in terms of focusing accuracy.
 
jlw said:
Remember that, when it comes to viewfinders, brightness impresses the crowds -- but it's contrast that brings home the bacon in terms of focusing accuracy.
Click to expand...

I am not sure what you mean. What camera has the most contrast for focussing accuracy? I may, indeed, wish to bring home some dead pig parts.

Wayne
 
Brian,

You are not helping my GAS attack. We have a camera swap meet coming up in a couple of weeks. I may have to load several hundred pounds of camera equipment into the car and see if I can sell/trade for a M3. What to get rid of, what to get rid of, what to get rid of. how shall I ever decide?

Is the best there is ever too good?

Wayne
 
Your stuffed now, you've gone and touched the darn thing. That nasty M virus spreads instantly via contact with the eye piece.
I borrowed a M3 just before christmas, played with an M2 in February, now I own one.

But however I am very impressed with my M2's viewfinder. The brightness is on par with my Bessa-R, it's a dream to focus, the bright patch is easy to see at night and the in viewfinder DOF scale is extra bonus. I do find the 35mm framelines difficult to see all at once (I wear glasses).

Stu :)
 
> Is the best there is ever too good?

No, just too expensive. But it is better than the worst there is being too expensive.

And think of all the Closet and Shelf space that you will free up!
 
What you get rid of? Hmm... If you want a good new home for your contax iia or iiia body and the 50/1.5, and you are not too greedy...:):rolleyes:
 
Pherdinand said:
What you get rid of? Hmm... If you want a good new home for your contax iia or iiia body and the 50/1.5, and you are not too greedy...:):rolleyes:
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Thank you for your kind offer, but I will keep the Contax system. I was thinking about maybe getting rid of Topcon Super D system, Super Graphic 4x5, Olympus Pen FT, Yashicmat, Pentax Spotmatic F, Canon F1-N.

I'll probably end up keeping everything and just adding more Gear.

Wayne
 
OK, another generous offer: You can keep the contax officially; i will be glad to borrow it for an indefinite period. This way your new gear will get more use, will have more space, etc, and you still did not get rid of anything, hehe.

I pay for the shipping, if you want.
 
Super Graphic 4x5?

Can anyone tell me mor about this? Maybe some shots of the system?
It's an LF system, right? I've secretly been thinking about LF....
 
But... how bright or contrasty is the Canon P viewfinder?
I mean compared to the M2
 
RML said:
Super Graphic 4x5?

Can anyone tell me mor about this? Maybe some shots of the system?
It's an LF system, right? I've secretly been thinking about LF....
Click to expand...


The Super Graphic is one of the best Graflex LF cameras, it has more movements than the more common Crown/Speed Graphic, it has a revolving back and a buildt-in shutter.
I started with a 1954 Crown Graphic that I got on eBay for $120 and while it`s a LF camera with limitations, I developed a taste for LF, and my wallet still hurts from it....
I had to buy a scanner for scanning those huge negs, and I got a Shen-Hao field camera, a couple of good LF lenses, developing tubes(If you don`t develop B&W yourself the cost will kill you)darkcloth etc.....

LF is really fun, and makes you think in a whole different way, but I warn you, it will cost! :D
 
(1) I no longer have an M2, but IIRC, assuming both are properly cleaned, the VFs on the M2 & M3 are about the same in brightness. Both are slightly tinted compared w/an M4, M5, M6, M7, or MP, but are still plenty bright as you saw for yourself.

(2) The Canon P's VF is plenty bright, but the VF patch is not as well-defined (coincident only, like on a thread mount Leica or Nikon RF) & the framelines are reflected, not projected (meaning they don't have their source of lighting like the M Leicas), & can be difficult to make it in certain lighting conditions. If anything, the P's VF is too bright as it tends to flare out easily in strong light; this may be due to age problems but old-timers I've corresponded with say this was a problem when the Ps were new.

(3) I've never had Henry Scherer clean a VF on 1 of my Contaces, but I have had them CLA'ed by other highly-qualified techs like Ken Ruth & Wolf Umbach, & sadly no Contax, whether pre or post-WWII (the pre-WWII models being a tad brighter when cleaned IME) & no matter how clean, approaches a Leica M in VF brightness. As I understand it, this is due to the fact that Contax's VF & RF prisms are tinted. Indeed, this simple fact is the main reason why I use Leica M cameras in the 1st place, as I do a lot of low light shooting; as far as I'm concerned, the VF/RF is the Leica M's raison d'etre, not the body shape, not the shutter, not even the lenses. FYI, very late model Contaces have much less VF tinting, i.e., the VF appears neutral in coloring as opposed to the normal green, but they're still not in Leica M, or even Nikon S series, territory.

FWIW, I started out w/a Contax IIa system, then succumbed to GAS & acquired all the various cameras you speak of. However, if I didn't do a lot of low light "available darkness" shooting, I would have been happy sticking w/the Contax.

Wayne R. Scott said:
I have bright viewfinder envy.

Last week I visited a camera store and asked if they had any rangefinder cameras and the young clerk behind the counter said no they did not. As I was walking out of the store I noticed what looked like a Leica on a shelf in the outside display window. So I went back in and asked if I could look at it. It turns out that it was a Leica M2. After playing with it for a minute I was shocked at how bright the viewfinder patch was and how subjects snapped into focus. And I my Scottish wallet was in shock at the price tag on it.

Here are my questions.

1) Is the Leica M3 SS and DS similar to the Leica M2 in how bright the viewfinder seems to be?

2) How does the Canon P viewfinder compare to the Leica?

3) Lastly, and most importantly, how does the Contax IIA and Contax IIIA viewfinder compare after Henry S. has worked his magic on them?

I have the Contax bodies already with 21mm Biogon, 35mm Nikkor, 50mm f1.5 Sonnar, 85mm J-9, and 135mm Zeiss Sonnar.

Should I just get the bodies serviced? Or should I succumb to GAS and add the Canon P, Leica M2 and Leica M3 to my collection and then compare for myself?

Wayne
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furcafe,

Thank you very much for your informative answer. I thought that there was probably some one in the world who had real world experience with these cameras.

Unfortunately, you have confirmed what I suspected was the case. I dearly love the Contax cameras with the exception of the annoying focussing difficulties I have in low light situations. To be truthful with you I have been haunted constantly by the view in the M2 since I have handled it. I have been playing with a few cameras that I have in low light, Canon QL-17 GIII, Koni-Omega, Contax IIa and IIIa, Yashica Electro 35 GSN and a Polaroid Land 250 with the Ziess-Ikon rangefinder. Suprisingly the Polaroid has the brightest viewfinder.

My thinking now is that I will do one of the following.

A) Buy a Cosina R2C and use my existing Zeiss glass.

B) Buy a Leica M2 or M3 and start building a new lens system, probably a 35mm, 50mm and 90mm as these are "my" most used focal lengths. (Or if I am truly nuts, I could buy an Orion lens adapter for Contax lens to Leica bodies for a mere $2,500 and use my existing lens on Leicas).

C) Buy a Kodak 2D 8x10 and put a Satin Snow ground glass in it and say to H*LL with wedding photography in dimly lit churches.

Wayne
 
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You're very welcome. I was in a similar dilemma & can certainly appreciate your situation.

BTW, are you aware of the little project to make new Contax RF-LTM adapters from old Kiev mounts?

See http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BMHY

Because I already had an extensive collection of lenses in Contax RF mount, I actually bought a new Japanese Orion-style adapter (very pricey but still less than $2 grand, not that that's saying much) soon after acquiring my 1st Leica, an M2, but am looking forward to trying out the new home-brewed product. If you know someone in Japan, I believe the Orion-style adapters are still available in specialty camera stores there (they only come up on eBay about once or twice a year & go for way too much).

If the Bessa R2C had been around when I was in your position, it probably would have delayed my entry into Leica M a few years (the call of the Noctilux & funky LTM glass would have eventually pulled me over to the dark side!).

Wayne R. Scott said:
furcafe,

Thank you very much for your informative answer. I thought that there was probably some one in the world who had real world experience with these cameras.

Unfortunately, you have confirmed what I suspected was the case. I dearly love the Contax cameras with the exception of the annoying focussing difficulties I have in low light situations. To be truthful with you I have been haunted constantly by the view in the M2 since I have handled it. I have been playing with a few cameras that I have in low light, Canon QL-17 GIII, Koni-Omega, Contax IIa and IIIa, Yashica Electro 35 GSN and a Polaroid Land 250 with the Ziess-Ikon rangefinder. Suprisingly the Polaroid has the brightest viewfinder.

My thinking now is that I will do one of the following.

A) Buy a Cosina R2C and use my existing Zeiss glass.

B) Buy a Leica M2 or M3 and start building a new lens system, probably a 35mm, 50mm and 90mm as these are "my" most used focal lengths. (Or if I am truly nuts, I could buy an Orion lens adapter for Contax lens to Leica bodies for a mere $2,500 and use my existing lens on Leicas).

C) Buy a Kodak 2D 8x10 and put a Satin Snow ground glass in it and say to H*LL with wedding photography in dimly lit churches.

Wayne
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