spersky
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I think insults to a person's form of photography is a low blow indeed. The picture that are posted obviously appeal to the poster at least. There is no reason to insult the type or form of their expression.
Here is the problem I have with the Leica defense. If there is noise or a technical flaw in a picture and it comes from the Leica M8, well people just applaud the photograph as having a unique character that only Leica can produce. That is the biggest BS I have ever heard. Quotes like, "The smoothness, the film like gritiness, the Leica color range, the dynamic range"
Wonder why so many people get attacked on these Leica forums. It is because of the BS that is constantly expressed by people who seem to be blind to photography because an image came from a Leica.
Of cousre it pisses people off when all standards of objectivity fly out the window just because the picture was taken with a Leica. Noise in no longer noise, Beautiful shots from a Canon are considered "plastic". Somehow the Leica noise trancends all reality and makes the image gritty and appealing.
Some even go as far to state that this is just what the company wanted to achieve. That is giving them a lot of credit considering that they cannot even get the M8 to take pictures of black objects without filters, or even work reliably.
Here is the problem I have with the Leica defense. If there is noise or a technical flaw in a picture and it comes from the Leica M8, well people just applaud the photograph as having a unique character that only Leica can produce. That is the biggest BS I have ever heard. Quotes like, "The smoothness, the film like gritiness, the Leica color range, the dynamic range"
Wonder why so many people get attacked on these Leica forums. It is because of the BS that is constantly expressed by people who seem to be blind to photography because an image came from a Leica.
Of cousre it pisses people off when all standards of objectivity fly out the window just because the picture was taken with a Leica. Noise in no longer noise, Beautiful shots from a Canon are considered "plastic". Somehow the Leica noise trancends all reality and makes the image gritty and appealing.
Some even go as far to state that this is just what the company wanted to achieve. That is giving them a lot of credit considering that they cannot even get the M8 to take pictures of black objects without filters, or even work reliably.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
The D2X is a rangefinder?!? Are we comparing paperclips with tacks again?rsl said:
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Of cousre, especalily wenh poepel ca'tn use a frggni spell chekcre.spersky said:
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Oh, I see. It's women taken by anybody else that you consider "girlfriends". That's what you're objecting to.sirvine said:...and then you post a batch of precisely these images in the next post? I'll have to show you my gallery of available light coffee mug shots @f2 some day. It's some of my finest work.
Now I see what you're seeing, and what you're not seeing.
Why don't you enlighten us with what in your world consists a good image. Could you provide me a link to your portfolio that backs your claim to debunking everybody else's (which, I guess, from your egogigantic point of view, includes me) B.S.
Please, teach us the way.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
spersky said:
I think I am well within my rights when I state that I prefer the way images look when they are taken with a CCD sensor over those taken with a CMos sensor, as well as stating that I do see advantages in using a light filter in front of the sensor and accepting any disadvantage, like having to use a filter in front of the lens instead in certain conditions. And I too am free to state that I object as much to the number of " error 99" failures that my Canon camera's gave me as I would have done to unreliability issues on my two M8 camera's, which have not shown any sign of problems in that department.
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Sailor Ted
Well-known
rsl,
When I make 5x7 prints from either my M8 or R-D1 it is always the M8 whose images seem to "jump" off the paper they are printed on. By comparison my R-D1 images seem "flatter," softer and the color seems less saturated and more "digital." That higher mega pixel count can result in higher resolution is true but (and I may not understand this fully) at 5x7 is this the only advantage the M8 has over the R-D1 and most DSLR's?
It seems to me the unique compromises that went into the M8 are responsible for the M8's unique signature- for the good and bad. By forgoing an anti-aliasing filter, placing a thin(er) filter in front of the digital sensor, running less noise compression and smoothing, and angled sensor lenses the M8 creates images that are quite film like. It also makes the M8 sensitive to IR and requires cut filters if you want your colors 100% accurate and can exhibit moray patterns under certain circumstances however I have never experienced this. Tradeoff's aside the M8 within it's native resolution print size and below will hold it's own against other digital cameras with higher MP at the same print size and below I would imagine (unless these cameras also adopt some of the M8's design decisions).
This thread started out as "I love my M8" and I do. This does not mean it's perfect (it certainly is not) but for me it's my best digital alternative. Sometime soon a manufacturer will come out with a huge and heavy DSLR that will clearly outperform the M8 in large print size but for me this is a non issue- I'll still love my M8 nor will I be tempted to carry a 20 MP howitzer into the field as this does not work for my style of photography. The fact is my M8 is too big sometimes and I gladly compromise my image quality for a smaller size camera when I shoot with my GRD; a camera I also love.
When I make 5x7 prints from either my M8 or R-D1 it is always the M8 whose images seem to "jump" off the paper they are printed on. By comparison my R-D1 images seem "flatter," softer and the color seems less saturated and more "digital." That higher mega pixel count can result in higher resolution is true but (and I may not understand this fully) at 5x7 is this the only advantage the M8 has over the R-D1 and most DSLR's?
It seems to me the unique compromises that went into the M8 are responsible for the M8's unique signature- for the good and bad. By forgoing an anti-aliasing filter, placing a thin(er) filter in front of the digital sensor, running less noise compression and smoothing, and angled sensor lenses the M8 creates images that are quite film like. It also makes the M8 sensitive to IR and requires cut filters if you want your colors 100% accurate and can exhibit moray patterns under certain circumstances however I have never experienced this. Tradeoff's aside the M8 within it's native resolution print size and below will hold it's own against other digital cameras with higher MP at the same print size and below I would imagine (unless these cameras also adopt some of the M8's design decisions).
This thread started out as "I love my M8" and I do. This does not mean it's perfect (it certainly is not) but for me it's my best digital alternative. Sometime soon a manufacturer will come out with a huge and heavy DSLR that will clearly outperform the M8 in large print size but for me this is a non issue- I'll still love my M8 nor will I be tempted to carry a 20 MP howitzer into the field as this does not work for my style of photography. The fact is my M8 is too big sometimes and I gladly compromise my image quality for a smaller size camera when I shoot with my GRD; a camera I also love.
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Sailor Ted
Well-known
Sperski,
Perhaps your MTV "real-world" irony escapes you. The "noise" in my image was only visible when pixel peeping and not in print. That I was pushing shadow areas post process so that I could hold the highlight areas at the time the photo was made seems to have escaped you and other people whose only reason for being here is to cast dispersion on the M8 (you don't own an M8 and your not even an M shooter). Pushing shadow areas post process always creates digital noise- you know that right?
I know you fashion your self some kind of a renegade consumer advocate “saving” people from the horror that is the M8 but what about people that don’t want to haul a big ugly and loud DSLR into the field? What do you recommend they get instead? And while your at it why don’t you tell me what is wrong with the images I and other M8 photogs are making with this camera you present to readers as a POS?
I eagerly await your cogent response.
Perhaps your MTV "real-world" irony escapes you. The "noise" in my image was only visible when pixel peeping and not in print. That I was pushing shadow areas post process so that I could hold the highlight areas at the time the photo was made seems to have escaped you and other people whose only reason for being here is to cast dispersion on the M8 (you don't own an M8 and your not even an M shooter). Pushing shadow areas post process always creates digital noise- you know that right?
I know you fashion your self some kind of a renegade consumer advocate “saving” people from the horror that is the M8 but what about people that don’t want to haul a big ugly and loud DSLR into the field? What do you recommend they get instead? And while your at it why don’t you tell me what is wrong with the images I and other M8 photogs are making with this camera you present to readers as a POS?
I eagerly await your cogent response.
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Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I think the lesson here is that if we don't agree with one person then we are all narrow-minded and can't stand seeing another point of view; therefore any rights you think you may have are pointless for they further prove how you can't claim any rights to express your ill views. We must learn from one from the Legion of Masters.jaapv said:
And yes, your sarcasm scanner is off the scale
ywenz
Veteran
Gabriel M.A. said:
People are comparing the Leica IQ to DSLR IQ so it's an apples to apples comparison.
spersky said:
AMEN
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
AMEN?!? Dang. I can't compete with that.ywenz said:
"And yet, it moves..." ---Galileo Galilei :angel:
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Gabriel M.A. said:I think the lesson here is that if we don't agree with one person then we are all narrow-minded and can't stand seeing another point of view; therefore any rights you think you may have are pointless for they further prove how you can't claim any rights to express your ill views. We must learn from one from the Legion of Masters.
And yes, your sarcasm scanner is off the scale
Excuse me? You can express your views and I can't?
Sailor Ted
Well-known
rsl said:
Thanks rsl for the compliment I like much of your work also : )
BTW that image was shot very close to wide open if not wide open. No more then f2.8.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I am kidding, jaapv.jaapv said:
Re-read the second line.
Ay ay ay ay ay. :bang:
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ok-Ok I know you of yore... Missed that.....
.....spersky
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Sailor Ted said:
Ted,
I used to be an M shooter, and I have abandoned film a long time ago for the digital route.
I am well aware of how to process digital images, and artifacts that are made when too much manipulation occurs. In addition, I understand how you can be offended when someone enters your ,"I love Leica M8 fantasy world" with real issues that might affect their purchasing decision. I do not own an M8, thank god. I owe my thanks to other fellow consumer who had the decency to give me the facts about the camera , and not the brainwashed Leica mantra BS that you are always spouting.
People always say not to compare the Leica M8 to another camera systems. However, they are usually the first people to say that the Leica M8 takes the best photographs of all systems. It is even better than Medium format. However, when someone finally calls those statements to task, these very same people run and hide and make up excuses for Leica.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
No excuses from me- I love my M8 IR and all and my images are what I have been dreaming about from digital photography- finally I have a digital camera that exceeds the IQ I was getting from my film M and it uses my M lenses. BTW where is your gallery so we can see the images your getting from your cannon and again what is wrong with the M8's images and what camera would you recommend to those of us who do not want to haul a DSLR around?
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ywenz
Veteran
Lets see some exceptional images created by the M8.. I've already linked you all to 5D shooter Sean Flanigan's website, showing you what the 5D is capable of in the hand of a great photographer. I haven't seen anything in this thread from the M8 that come close to his work. Maybe it's due to an unskillful indian, maybe it's also because of the arrow.
sirvine
Established
My point (which I feel compelled to restate in light of all the red-faced huffery it prompted) was that for all this talk of the remarkable quality of the M8's picture-taking capabilities, and table-thumping about how amazing the flickr accounts are, I find flickr's M8 streams to be a little flat and unremarkable (taken as a whole, of course) from both a technical and an aesthetic perspective (one obviously being more objective than the other).
So a forum moderator called me a child because he doesn't like my opinion...so what? So you think flickr's M8 stream is impressive and I don't...so what? So you think only people with credentials can have opinions...so what? So I dared to interrupt this logrolling exercise where M8 owners congratulate themselves for snapshots of their respective knitting clubs...so what?
Do you care because I'm being a bull in your china shop, or do you care because you know I'm right? People really need to lighten up. There's just a spooky negative energy in this forum, and it seems to eminate from people who can't handle a little criticism.
So a forum moderator called me a child because he doesn't like my opinion...so what? So you think flickr's M8 stream is impressive and I don't...so what? So you think only people with credentials can have opinions...so what? So I dared to interrupt this logrolling exercise where M8 owners congratulate themselves for snapshots of their respective knitting clubs...so what?
Do you care because I'm being a bull in your china shop, or do you care because you know I'm right?
People really need to lighten up. There's just a spooky negative energy in this forum, and it seems to eminate from people who can't handle a little criticism.Sailor Ted
Well-known
ywenz said:
And while were on the subject what is up with your gallery- did someone secretly substute your 5D with a 3 MP DSLR?
ywenz
Veteran
sirvine said:
I find the images in the Film Leica flickr group to be much more impressive than the M8 group's offerings
Sailor Ted said:And while were on the subject what is up with your gallery- did someone secretly substute your 5D with a 3 MP DSLR?
Ted, that's a foolish statement, since I made no attempt at putting my own photographs onto a pedestal. However since you brought it up, I find hardly much of anything in your gallery worthy of clicking on. Despite your arsenal of high quality cameras. I'll live with my 3MP DSLR and my film Leica.
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