I Love My M8!

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Sailor Ted said:
rsl,

It seems to me the unique compromises that went into the M8 are responsible for the M8's unique signature- for the good and bad. By forgoing an anti-aliasing filter, placing a thin(er) filter in front of the digital sensor, running less noise compression and smoothing, and angled sensor lenses the M8 creates images that are quite film like. It also makes the M8 sensitive to IR and requires cut filters if you want your colors 100% accurate and can exhibit moray patterns under certain circumstances however I have never experienced this. Tradeoff's aside the M8 within it's native resolution print size and below will hold it's own against other digital cameras with higher MP at the same print size and below I would imagine (unless these cameras also adopt some of the M8's design decisions).
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Sure, that whole black is purple is as Ted like to put it a "unique compromise" I guess it is rather unique for a camera company to sell a camera for $5,000 dollars that cannot even get a simple color correct, and does not even tell the paying public about it.

Since you are such a digital wizard, as you have keenly pointed out, you would also realize that moire patterns are extremely hard to fix in post processing. So are color shifts that are not uniform throughout the entire photograph. But, that is the unique compromises that I should have to deal with after spending 5K.
 
Spersky,
I have never- NEVER had a moiré pattern. Not one time in 3000 images. As to purple black none of my flickr images were shot with IR filters. From what I understand they will get even sharper and color will be spot on but as it stands I am happy with my images. BTW I am the OP of this thread where I was expressing my delight at a photo shot last weekend of street performer. What kind of a Richard sees fit to pee on another persons thread expressing happiness in a shot? Where is your gallery since you "thank god" you did not purchase an M8? I'd guess your results will blow mine away so please "bring it on."
 
Ted,

Well I must admit, I do not have many pictures of homeless people or coffee mugs in my library. Currently, I have not had the time to upload and create a gallery.

Let me see if I can post something here. This is macro photography of a water drop falling into some blue water.
 

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I admit this is nothing compared to an F/2 shot of an eyeball or another homeless person sitting on the corner. I actually tried to get a "gritty" look to this photograph. I admit that is was not taken with a Leica, therefore it might have that plastic digital look to it.
 

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I was roaming around here on RFF, and was rather astonished by this thread. First off, I viewed the images from Sailor Ted on the Flickr account and they positively JUMPED out at me.

Let me be the first to say that we all have opinions, and I do respect other's opinions when commenting good/bad on images.

I am not an M8 owner, nor will I ever be, as my photography is mostly related to medium format chromes using an slr, and I will spend my money in that venue.

However, there is a certain "something" about the images that I saw that remind of a much larger medium format "scanned chrome" or even a mf print. They are luscious, snappy, and somehow "real" (I don't really have the words to describe the "look" I see). And, I have to give kudos to the person behind the camera as well.

I have no ax to grind here; I'm simply relating my observation of beautiful imagery. It's a pleasure to view, and I have to think that at least part of the fine images might be related to a very very good piece of equipment in the Leica camera and associated lenses.

In fact, I see all sorts of nice images on this thread, from the "agreement" people and from the "disagreement" people! Hey, maybe you can all disagree with each other some more, and I will get to be the beneficiary of the ultimately fine imagery!
 
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Sperski I just looked through your post history & every post you have is negative. Do you even own a rangefinder camera?You only speak of owning a dslr. I don't understand why certain people, all they won't to do is run down someone elses cameras. The post is "I Love My M8". If people can't accept that then they should leave and post something positive that we can all learn from. For one I enjoy the photographs of Ted and others of their M8s even though I don't own one.
Yes i'll probably get pm'ed by a mod. but facts are facts.
cheers
Greg
 
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Sailor Ted said:
rsl,
When I make 5x7 prints from either my M8 or R-D1 it is always the M8 whose images seem to "jump" off the paper they are printed on. By comparison my R-D1 images seem "flatter," softer and the color seems less saturated and more "digital." That higher mega pixel count can result in higher resolution is true but (and I may not understand this fully) at 5x7 is this the only advantage the M8 has over the R-D1 and most DSLR's?

It seems to me the unique compromises that went into the M8 are responsible for the M8's unique signature- for the good and bad. By forgoing an anti-aliasing filter, placing a thin(er) filter in front of the digital sensor, running less noise compression and smoothing, and angled sensor lenses the M8 creates images that are quite film like. It also makes the M8 sensitive to IR and requires cut filters if you want your colors 100% accurate and can exhibit moray patterns under certain circumstances however I have never experienced this. Tradeoff's aside the M8 within it's native resolution print size and below will hold it's own against other digital cameras with higher MP at the same print size and below I would imagine (unless these cameras also adopt some of the M8's design decisions).

This thread started out as "I love my M8" and I do. This does not mean it's perfect (it certainly is not) but for me it's my best digital alternative. Sometime soon a manufacturer will come out with a huge and heavy DSLR that will clearly outperform the M8 in large print size but for me this is a non issue- I'll still love my M8 nor will I be tempted to carry a 20 MP howitzer into the field as this does not work for my style of photography. The fact is my M8 is too big sometimes and I gladly compromise my image quality for a smaller size camera when I shoot with my GRD; a camera I also love.
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Ted,

Thanks for a balanced response to my statement. Turns out we're not actually in disagreement. First of all, I like your photography. I don't post on Flickr because I have several domains of my own. You can see very coarse copies of some of my work on the web I sell from, www.rslstudio.com, and even more on my personal (fun) web, www.pkinfo.com. I also like the results I see from the M8, and, like you, I don't like carrying around a D2X, though sometimes that's necessary for the stuff I do. I prefer street photography, though nowadays I don't get enough chances to do that. For street work there's nothing that can take the place of a good rangefinder, and once Leica fixes it I have no doubt that the M8 will be the best rangefinder out there.

Yes, I think the idea of using a very thin filter over the M8 sensor was a good idea even though it causes a problem with IR and, occasionally, with moire patterns. I hope Leica finds a way to avoid the cut filter requirement because that seems a real downer to me.

As far as results from the R-D1 and other digital cameras being "washed out" is concerned, that may be because, unlike most of the people who show prints at "art fairs" around the country I don't like oversaturated color. I tend to pull the saturation instead of push it. In the end, there's nothing quite like black and white, though there are plenty of situations where color is essential. But to be straight and realistic color can't be pushed the way an awful lot of photographers push it. I know why they push it -- a lot of people like it that way and tend to buy what they're selling because it's pushed. Happily, I don't have to live on my photography, so I don't have to do that. In the long run, I think my prints will wear better. Pushed color saturation can become tiring after a while. By the way, the shot on my earlier post was at f/4.0 and ISO 800, so it wasn't as tack sharp as it might have been otherwise.

It's okay to love your M8. If Leica fixes it I'll buy one and I'm sure I'll love it too. I certainly loved all three of my film Leicas, especially my M4 which was in Asia with me for two years. But it doesn't pay to make claims for the M8 that won't stand up to scrutiny. For instance, to say that the M8 image is "film like" more or less requires you to say which film. Every film I ever worked with was different from all the others. Every digital I've worked with gave a result different from all the others. Even the R-D1, which uses the same sensor as my D100, gives a different result from the D100. Which of all these results is best is all in the eye of the beholder.

In the final analysis, as I've said several times on these forums, the rangefinder is a specialized tool, especially good for street photography. There are other kinds of photography where a blunderbuss of a D2X is better, and there are other kinds where only a large format film camera will do. I do stuff that requires the D2X kind of camera and I love to do stuff that, if not requiring it, certainly desires a good rangefinder. I used to do stuff that required a 4 x 5, but I've lost interest in that kind of thing.

Keep on loving your M8. I have high hopes that Leica will get the thing to the point where I can join you.
 
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OK,
Let's please keep the conversation on the matter in hand and not on each other. Opinions will be different - get over it, discuss the facts not the feelings.

Kim
 
ywenz said:
Lets see some exceptional images created by the M8.. I've already linked you all to 5D shooter Sean Flanigan's website, showing you what the 5D is capable of in the hand of a great photographer. I haven't seen anything in this thread from the M8 that come close to his work. Maybe it's due to an unskillful indian, maybe it's also because of the arrow.
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Well, there are some images in this thread which shows a whole range of work with the M8 from the worst to the best. (please don't tell me which level you rate my stuff on ;) )
 
ywenz said:
http://seanflaniganphotography.com/ <- WOW

Can the same be said of any M8 images thus far? Not for me they can't. Please make a believer out of me.
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So if I buy a 5D or whatever this guy uses, I will start taking photographs like this? I'm off to the shop now...:D
Seriously, aren't you confusing the quality of the photographer with the quality of the camera? All I can say, that I think my photography has improved dramatically, or become considerably less bad, if you will, since I started using this camera. Somehow it inspires me.
 
jaapv said:
So if I buy a 5D or whatever this guy uses, I will start taking photographs like this? I'm off to the shop now...:D
Seriously, aren't you confusing the quality of the photographer with the quality of the camera? All I can say, that I think my photography has improved dramatically, or become considerably less bad, if you will, since I started using this camera. Somehow it inspires me.
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Obviously not just look at Ben's gallery. And once again Jap you hit the nail on the head. Though I'm no pro I am improving with every photography session thanks in part to my M8.

PS. Kim these are the "facts" as I see them.
 
jaapv said:
So if I buy a 5D or whatever this guy uses, I will start taking photographs like this? I'm off to the shop now...:D
Seriously, aren't you confusing the quality of the photographer with the quality of the camera? All I can say, that I think my photography has improved dramatically, or become considerably less bad
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I'm glad that you are enjoying the camera. It looks like it was was a good purchase for you, which I've never doubted.

I know the equipment doesn't make the image. However I would think that it's reasonable to expect a great photographer to maximize the performance potential of a camera. I see shots on Sean's site that encompasses tricky lighting and mixed colors, and great post processing to boot. In short, he was able to take pictures in tricky scenarios and post process the camera files such that the resulting image has that *wow* as you can see. I would love for the M8 to be used in this way by a photographer of Sean's level to see what the possibilities are. I'm sorry, but a shoot from the hip, using an ultrawide, large DOF lens is not an example of what the M8 is ultimately capable of. I love the work of David Allan Harvey, look thru his work and see the beautiful colors and lighting he captured with his M6+slide? Ooohh would I be ever interested it if DAH got hold of an M8..
 
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EDIT. Talk about the camera not other people.

Kim
 
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Edward Felcher said:
It's the same thing when I buy an antique military watch or a wabi-ed Rolex.
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Edward, thanks for the interesting image of a digital camera with a sense of wabi. I still can't conceive of it.

I don't know about astral planes, but I think people are arguing about the same thing. The camera shouldn't get in the way, which is an M8 for some, a 5D for others. I can see how the color and banding could get in the way. When that's taken care of I'll be saving up. My images will still be snap shots, but for some snap shots it'll be great.
 
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Edward Felcher said:
It's the same thing when I buy an antique military watch or a wabi-ed Rolex.

"What! You spent $5000 on that piece of junk?? My $15 Casio keeps better time!! Ha ha ha ha!!"
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Intresting analogy, so are you saying buying a Leica is the experience of owning that particular brand, as opposed to expecting absolute performance? If so, then your analogy hits the nail right on the head. Bravo!
 
MikeL said:
Edward, thanks for the interesting image of a digital camera with a sense of wabi. I still can't conceive of it.

I don't know about astral planes, but I think people are arguing about the same thing. The camera shouldn't get in the way, which is an M8 for some, a 5D for others. I can see how the color and banding could get in the way. When that's taken care of I'll be saving up. My images will still be snap shots, but for some snap shots it'll be great.
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So it is time to start saving up: banding is virtually impossible to provoke - as good or better as any camera on the market - colour response, if using IR filters and shooting RAW (which is needed for best results on any digital camera I know of) is more than excellent.
 
Sailor Ted said:
Obviously not just look at Ben's gallery. And once again Jap you hit the nail on the head. Though I'm no pro I am improving with every photography session thanks in part to my M8.

PS. Kim these are the "facts" as I see them.
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What's your reason for dragging me into this? I didn't post to this thread and I never held my gallery up as an example of great or even good photography, it's just one of a number of my hobbies.
 
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