I Think The M8 Will Fly Like A Lead Balloon

[Stu W]

Jorge will probably move this thread, but the more I think of the M8, the more I think it is doomed to failure. A couple of years ago a company put out a prototype digital "film". It looked like a 35mm film cassette with a tongue sticking out of it. Supposedly you just popped it into your 35mm camera and used it as normal, with the exception that the "film" cartridge could be downloaded to your computer. The company went bust and I haven't heard anything more about it.
After looking at Canon and Nikon digital equipment, I don't think the professional photographer will buy the M8. The features and the focal lengths on the Canon system are amazing. That leaves the Leica purist. I think they would shoot digital, but it would have to be done on a film type camera. Something you would use like a regular M series camera. Wind, compose, focus, shoot. The only diff would be that you would soup your film on the computer. I love the M's because they will last forever. If the digital part was an add on I would buy it, but I'm not spending 5 g's on a disposable Leica. Stu

 

[VinceC]

Time will tell. But until the digital era was fully in place, many many news photographers purchased their own personal Leicas and carried them along with SLRs, usually with a 21mm lens attached.

 

[anaanda]

Hi Stu
You definitely made some good points. Tony Rose told me he had 32 $1000 deposits for the M8. I won't buy it because the price is out of sight although if I really wanted to I could afford it. Sure I would like to own it but not that badly. I actually think quite the opposite. I think it will be the most successful M..but only time will tell. Time always reveals the truth..I think its good enough that people will be using it for many years..
🙂

 

[dmr]

Jorge will probably move this thread, but the more I think of the M8, the more I think it is doomed to failure. A couple of years ago a company put out a prototype digital "film". It looked like a 35mm film cassette with a tongue sticking out of it. Supposedly you just popped it into your 35mm camera and used it as normal, with the exception that the "film" cartridge could be downloaded to your computer. The company went bust and I haven't heard anything more about it.

I really haven't said anything about the M8, but I have been following the discussion. I doubt if I'll consider purchasing one. Main reason, I don't have the kilobucks to spend on a camera, period. 🙂

The main negative points are first of all, the lack of a full-size frame. For some reason, this bothers me. I really can't explain it.

The second is that the "film" is locked in for the life of the camera.

Now if they would come up with a full frame sensor M series (the sensor is possible, I've been told that one of the Canon DSLRs has it) where there is an option to use film as well, I think I would seriously consider it.

I love the M's because they will last forever. If the digital part was an add on I would buy it, but I'm not spending 5 g's on a disposable Leica.

I agree. I admit I'm still holding my breath waiting for that digital film to become a reality. (I'm also turning blue.) 🙂

Even if Leica uses absolute bleeding edge technology on that sensor, it's gonna be obsolete in months. For something as expensive as the M8, it's not worth it, to me, anyway. Will the M8 be usable 30 years from now?

 

[Socke]

Stu, how many digital rangefinders are ther if you want to shoot one instead of a dSLR?

The prices I read so far indicate it's some 800 Euro more expensive than a M7 or MP, that's 80 rolls Ektachrome 100 developed in a pro lab!

Edit:

I'd buy one if I had the funds and there are enough people with deeper pockets who do buy it.

 

[Socke]

Now if they would come up with a full frame sensor M series (the sensor is possible, I've been told that one of the Canon DSLRs has it) where there is an option to use film as well, I think I would seriously consider it.

Two Canons have a full frame sensor and both have serious light fall off with even the best WA lenses.

I don't think that is what one wants from Leica glas.

 

[Stu W]

A digital data back that would replace the back door would satisfy me. I would probably even buy one, because I know that when it craps out I can always buy the 20 megapixel one. Think about the whole concept of the Leica camera. Infinitely rebuildable and upgradeable. I could send Dag an M3 and ask him to turn it into an M anything and he could do it. Not so with digital. Stu

 

[Socke]

Even if Leica uses absolute bleeding edge technology on that sensor, it's gonna be obsolete in months. For something as expensive as the M8, it's not worth it, to me, anyway. Will the M8 be usable 30 years from now?

My Contax RTS is the oldest camera I have, it's probably 30 years old now and has only been serviced once. Service meening new lightseels as there are no spareparts anymore.

It works, you could shoot pictures with it if you want a SLR with 1/2000th top shutterspeed and 1/60th X-Sync. I grab the more modern 167MT anytime I want to shoot a film SLR.

I expect the Leica M8 to be serviceable for a long time to come, possibly even a sensor replacement, Kodak did that with the its digital SLR not to long ago.

The important question is, do you want to shoot it with all its limitations in 30 years?

If you want to use a MP in 30 years, this could include cutting and perforating plastic strips, coat them, cut velvet strips and apply that to 20 years old filmcanisters so you can spool the film into those 🙂

 

[mc_vancouver]

...Stu writes,
After looking at Canon and Nikon digital equipment, I don't think the professional photographer will buy the M8. ...

Stu, I'd have to contradict you on that. I work in the film industry, not as a photographer, but I have friends who are the on-set stills photogs, and they have all, to a man and a woman, moved to digital. The studios love getting the shots the day they were shot (which, incidentally, makes more work for the stills person after the shooting has wrapped for the day), and, of course, no running out or low on film at the crucial moment. I would imagine photojournalists are the same way. For them, as I expect for many of us, the M8's most attractive point will be the lenses, and, one hopes, the robustness and field reliabilty that Leica rangefinders are famous for. I certainly cannot afford one, but for anyone who makes a living shooting news and features, I can't imagine a bag without one banging around next to the Nikons and Canons and Olympussies.

 

[Chris Lynch]

i think the M8 has alot more going for it than the DMR (THAT is an obscene investment, for little more than you can get with a canon system), and the DMR is doing great (with elitist photogs)...

 

[Bryce]

I'm torn as to whether the beastie sinks or swims, but I'm watching with interest.
On the one hand, this and the RD1 are the only thing like a digital
K1000 out there; although they are both much more expensive, lots of us want simple, reliable tools. Also, they are much handier than any modern SLR, even the little Pentax models, which endears them to the professional crowd.
On the other hand, it's probably unrealistic to expect better image quality than Canon's top end gear can give.
This'll all sort out on its own. Maybe we'll learn a little about joe consumers values as it happens.

 

[Paulbe]

I think the M8 has already sold out and the M9 is in the planning stages,,,
Paul in M6 land

 

[Chris Lynch]

Socke is making alot of good points here- i think it's incredible that the camera costs so little more than a base M7/MP....

 

[Paul T.]

Durrr! Why this obsession with depreciation?

The depreciation on your digital camera is the money you would otherwise spend on film. I'm not a professional photog, but I still charge around £1k a year on film and processing against tax. If I bought an M8, I could handle $1800 a year depreciation. $3600 over two years.

It's just not an issue, or at least, not a significant one, unless you run a dozen rolls of film thru your camera per year.

And of course, the original lead balloon, or led zeppelin, happened to make a lot of $$$$

 

[boarini2003]

Jorge will probably move this thread, but the more I think of the M8, the more I think it is doomed to failure. A couple of years ago a company put out a prototype digital "film". It looked like a 35mm film cassette with a tongue sticking out of it. Supposedly you just popped it into your 35mm camera and used it as normal, with the exception that the "film" cartridge could be downloaded to your computer. The company went bust and I haven't heard anything more about it.
After looking at Canon and Nikon digital equipment, I don't think the professional photographer will buy the M8. The features and the focal lengths on the Canon system are amazing. That leaves the Leica purist. I think they would shoot digital, but it would have to be done on a film type camera. Something you would use like a regular M series camera. Wind, compose, focus, shoot. The only diff would be that you would soup your film on the computer. I love the M's because they will last forever. If the digital part was an add on I would buy it, but I'm not spending 5 g's on a disposable Leica. Stu

I totally agree with you. Here's the thing for me: whateve anybody says, having a battery-dependent, digital M is the negation of the very thing that makes the M line what it is. The advantages of digital are the speed and convenience. The M8 fails there. The advantage of a mechanichal camera is the subjective beauty of film and the camera itself. The M8, although beautiful looking, does not have the soul of a mechanical camera. The M line is like a Rolex, and the M8 is like Rolex deviating from their pure mechanical design.

 

[bob cole]

Stu feels that... "After looking at Canon and Nikon digital equipment, I don't think the professional photographer will buy the M8."
_____________________________________________________________
Leica -- whose major stockholder is Hermes -- is not focusing [if I can use that term] on photo-pros or we traditionalists, who favor the old standbys...

Leica -- in my opinion -- is looking to the same customer that buys the Rolex, Patek Philippe and Bancpain 18-k gold watches as gifts, own a few Lexus, Ferrari and BMW cars, travel with Vuitton luggage, stock Vueve Cliquot Champagne by the case and collect Hermes neckties a hundred at a time to go with their megamillion-dollar homes in the Hamptons, the Riviera and other private watering holes around the world that they reach in 150-foot yachts...An M8 or two or three in that millieux is just a mere bagatelle; they make nice going away presents to a friend or two...or three...

 

[Al Patterson]

I understand all the "battery dependancy is not the M " and "depreciate like a lead ballon" sentiment, but if I had the $5k , I'd buy one just to use with the CL 40mm lense and the 50 Hexanon. Leica glass is special, and one could probably squeeze 5 years of this camera if one was careful. If you shoot as little a 1,000 shots a year, this thing will pay for itself in film saving alone.

And did I mention it uses M Leica glass?

 

[Socke]

For those who want something mechanical there is the MP, for those who want some electronics there is the M7 and for those who want a digital rangefinder there is the M8, pretty nice line up IMHO.

I've scanned two rolls today, another two are drying in the bathroom and one camera waits for the changeing bag so the film which came loose from the canister can be salvaged.

Those are shots from last sunday!

And to the watch analogy, I prefer Breitling to Rolex and Breitling has Quartz controlled watches, too 🙂

The Rolex was never acurate enough to syncronize teletype encrypting equipment, I either used a cheap Casio digital or the radio time signals to sync the KW37.
For diving I used a quartz controlled Dugena and the Submariner was just a posh accessory to impress other guys, the ladies didn't care for watches.

 

[bob cole]

You say, "And to the watch analogy, I prefer Breitling to Rolex..."


It's not what one likes, it's what one buys and 18-K Rolexes fly off the shelves...Breitling is a fine watch, of course, as are many others but a solid gold Rolex [ and a few others, not including your brand] is the choice of the trend setters...

{A Wall Street hotshot would feel naked without at least two gold Rolexes...Watch Emeril, the chef, on the Food Channel; he's got many Rolexes, some steel, some gold, which he changes from time to time...}


My personal favorite is a steel IWC chronograph with a black face and white numerals... Someday I may get one...

 

[Andrew Sowerby]

I always find the battery-dependent complaint leveled at electronic cameras to be funny. Surely you could throw an extra battery or two in your bag along with your film?