Identify a Summicron 90 ltm

[S.H.]

Hello,

I bought some years ago a Summicron 90, s/n 1742566 from 1960, optically in good shape; some marks on the front element, nothing showing in pictures. I had it cheap because the barrel shows some wear and the mount is slightly damaged : it mounts with some difficulty on my M8, it does not on my M4 or M3. For ~250€ still a good deal, as I used it with a Visoflex anyway.

I'm living now near a well known Leica trained repairman, who can work with lenses (dismantling, cleaning, polishing, ...). So today I asked if he could do something about the mount. It turns out that it is in fact a LTM lens, with a LTM=>M glued on 😱 ! Here is a picture :



The LTM adapter is circular, plain without markings, painted in black inside.

So, what do I have ? I looked here, is this a SEOOF? However, its barrel does not look exactly like the other LTM lenses I saw :



I wonder if it is an aftermarket contraption, or if this was done at the factory. Also, is it uncommon? And what is its value? (just curious, I don't plan to sell it, I'm just happy that the mount problem solved itself)

 

[ferider]

Per Lager the first M mount 90/2 Summicrons were LTM lenses with factory added adapter (and red dot). Had one like yours myself. Nice lens on the IIIG 🙂

 

[Vobluda]

I have collapsible Summicron 50 with glued adapter, didnt manage to take it off.

 

[ferider]

It was tough to get the adapter off my 90 .... I put the focus barrel in Acetone for a few days (without optics!), and then twisted it off with a cheap M/u43 adapter that I bought for this purpose.

Roland.

 

[Dralowid]

Yes, I've seen one of these. Guess they were hedging their bets as regards stockholding, demand etc during the first years of the M.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I have one like this too, nr. 1818354. My repairman didn't want to take the adapter off; he was afraid to damage the barrel. Anyway, a lens with a red dot looks a bit funny on a screw mount camera.
Great lens, btw. Works wonderful on an M3.

Erik.

 

[S.H.]

Thanks for the fast answer guys!

The adapter came off with a rubber mat and a quarter turn, just like that. I'm currently cleaning the old glue from the screw.

Any idea about the value and the number produced? I saw that around 500 ltm summicron should have been made, the actual number could be higher if some were "disguised" as M-mount. I find it strange that it came from the factory like that : slapping a simple adapter does not sound very "Leica like"...

Yes Erik, it will be nice on the M3 🙂

 

[Erik van Straten]

I find it strange that it came from the factory like that : slapping a simple adapter does not sound very "Leica like"...

I think it sold better with an M mount and a red dot. The lens is too big and too heavy for a screwmount. The marketing strategy of Leitz on screw mount or M mount is however not easy to understand for mortals like me.

Leica M3, Summicron 90mm f/2, Tmax400.

Erik.

 

[S.H.]

The lens is too big and too heavy for a screwmount.

Yes, it looks ridiculously big on my Leica III. And it blocks half of the RF patch!

Nice shot btw. I took this one with my M8 :

 

[Tom A]

It sound like a SEOOF lens. Collapsible hood, heavy construction. There were 490 of the SOOZI/SEOOF made in dedicated screw-mount. However, the version with the adapter glued in place - SEOOF-M was made in larger quantity - several 1000 of it. It is a good lens, soft corners at f2.0, but it was also designed to be portrait lens at f2.0 and is good for that. Stopped down to f5.6 it works well as an all-round short tele lens. The weight makes it a bit of a chore to carry around though. AS for value - I don't know. In perfect shape the SOOZI with the removable hood is quite valuable. The SEOOF-M is probably similar in value to the black, anodized later version - and of corse any marks or haze will depreciate it further.

 

[Tom A]

Leica Summicron 90mm f2.0 SOOZI version with adapter on a M2. Kodak XX developed in D96 (Kodaks movie stock developer - similar to D76).

 

[S.H.]

I like the contrast and the background blur in the picture above. You are right, who needs corner sharpness in such a situation...

So my lens is not a collectible. Well, I won't be afraid to use it then! And it was a good bargain. 🙂

 

[S.H.]

Looking for a SEOOF, I searched the Westlich auction site; I found a LTM lens almost exactly like mine, very close serial number (1742503) in their 17th auction. Almost identical, except:
- no red dot (being a "real" LTM lens)
- focusing mount seems slightly different (one little screw less, "00" in small numerals under the Canada marking, on mine "95").

Seems like they went wild with the little variations in the design of the barrel during the production, as if the word "standardization" was not on their dictionary...

 

[AlwaysOnAuto]

This thread makes me wonder if my old Wallensack lens has an adapter on it too.

 

[S.H.]

Looks like it does. If I'm looking right, it has a small indentation where the red dot is on a M lens, like a LTM adapter.

 

[Erik van Straten]

"00" in small numerals under the Canada marking, on mine "95"

These markings have to do with the exact focal length of the lens. There are often small differences between lenses of the same series.

Erik.

 

[Landshark]

The early f4 Super Angulons were also only manufactured in ltm mount. Leica used an ltm adapter secured with set screws.
Because the ltm version is worth a buck or two more some for sale may be M's without the adapter. If you check the ltm threads and there are dimples from set screws, someone's either not aware or the customer is being hoodwinked.

 

[AlwaysOnAuto]

So the little indentation that is square cut into the periphery of the mount in this picture is what you're saying is the same location as a red dot?
If so I think I need to try to get the adapter off. I've tried before but couldn't budge it. Hmmm.....

 

[peterm1]

I once had a 50mm f1.5 Summarit that similarly had the Leica adapter fixed to it - apparently with Shellac or clear nail polish or something of this sort. I eventually got it off after much difficulty. I think I may have dribbled a tiny bit of solvent (either acetone or surgical spirit) onto it and then wrapping the adapter with a cloth for a better grip and to protect my hand managed to unscrew it by twisting. This was very common back in "the day". In fact I still own three different adapters for short normal and tele lenses to be used with an LTM lens on a Leica M bayonet body.

 

[HuubL]

Same with the 35mm 8-element Summicron and F/2.8 Summaron. There were true LTM, true M-mount and dual mounts where the dedicated M-mount could be screwed off after removing a set screw. As far as I know, the dedicated M-mounts on these lenses were not glued onto the barrel. Strange enough, the red dot was glued onto the barrel and thus remained visible when the lens was used on an LTM body, like in the 90mm of the OP. On the later true M-mounts the red dot was glued onto the M-mount itself.

At least for the Summarons, true LTM mounts were sold later than lenses with removable M-mounts. I've had a 1959 removable and (still have) a 1960 true LTM-mount Summaron.

Check here