Leica LTM Identify a vintage Leica model

[Saorsa]

I am attempting to help a friend clear some of her deceased husband's camera gear. The most perplexing item is a Leica rangefinder purchased new in the early 1950s as a graduation gift.

I attempted to identify the model by the serial number which is 452081. There seem to be a number of Leica serial number lists which give me different results.

Some show this as a iic from 1938 and others as a iiic. In either case, it appears to have been converted to a iiif version with self timer and flash controls prior to sale.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dralowid]

452081 was a IIf from 1951.

This camera would appear to have been converted by the factory into a IIIf with self timer.

Current nomenclature would call it a IIIf BD (black dial) ST (self timer), enough!

There is lots of info on conversions in this thread:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91238

 

[xayraa33]

The Leica IIf black dial was not that common of a camera, they made more of the later IIf red dial cameras but in general customers preferred the IIIf in either BD or RD.

 

[Dralowid]

The Leica IIf black dial was not that common of a camera, they made more of the later IIf red dial cameras but in general customers preferred the IIIf in either BD or RD.

Yes, they made 8,400 of the IIf BD according to the book I am looking at, it was a simplified IIIf. It would have been cheaper.

 

[xayraa33]

Yes, they made 8,400 of the IIf BD according to the book I am looking at, it was a simplified IIIf. It would have been cheaper.

The IIc and IIf Leicas somewhat reminded me of the Fender Esquire guitar in the 1960s...with the Esquire you saved around $40 because it had only one pickup as compared to the Telecaster with two pickups. But it cost you $60 for the factory to convert your Esquire to a Telecaster if you later decided a two pickup guitar suited your needs better.

 

[Dralowid]

We had a production director who followed this this kind of approach. Ask for a product with an extra item on it and it would cost 10% more. Ask for the item to be removed and the saving would be 5%.

Back to the camera, it has an appeal. As far as I understand it there never was a IIIF BD ST which makes it a bit different.

 

[Bill Clark]

Maybe this will help:
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Main_Page

I believe this is Your camera:
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Leica_IIf

 

[shawn]

By serial number it started life as a Leica IIf. Leica offered upgrades to cameras for customers.

By looking at it it is obviously no longer a IIf. A IIf doesn't have the slow shutter speed dial on the front of the camera. This one was obviously upgraded to a IIIf at some point and likely at the same time had the self timer added as well.

So a Leica IIIf black dial, self timer (BD/ST) would be the appropriate name for it. The black dial refers to the numbers on the top cover that are around the high speed shutter dial. On earlier cameras they were painted in black and on later cameras they were red. There were physical changes inside too.

Shawn

 

[Saorsa]

Thank you all for your assistance.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Interesting too,
Possibly one from before the switch to 1/25th as the slowest speed on the IIf. This required the addition of a slow-speed mechanism just for that one speed setting.
Later on they also did away with those screws around the top cover's edge.