Identify Leica IIIf issue(s).

[hexiplex]

Hello folks, having received my IIIf last friday I've just developed the first roll of film I shot with it. It's been an absolute treat using this camera, but from the developed roll I've noticed a few discrepancies, such as quite severe streaking of certain images, strange frame spacing and two blank shots that are probably the result of user error. Anyway, with the help of some scans, I am hoping you LTM aficionados can help a first time thread mount user out with identifying what these issues are before I send my IIIf back to Ffordes under warranty.


The most disconcerting issue is the aforementioned streaking of some frames. Both of these were shot at fast shutter speeds (both at 1/1000) and it was also quite chilly outside, minus three celsius if I am not mistaken.

I see none of this streaking/unevenness in the other photos (except another one shot on the same occasion that looks exactly like the second photo) on the roll.

The second issue is a frame that's been "cut in half", only about a third of it seems to have been exposed. See picture below... I had some issues with frame spacing in the beginning of the roll (I think due to the fact that I had to trim the leader twice since I botched the first attempt), could that resurface so late in the roll?

The third and final issue that I've identified so far are two blank shots with a dark streak down the middle that I suspect came about when I accidentally tripped the shuttter whilst my thumb was resting against the shutter speed dial, does this sound likely?

By the way, here is a photograph (spared from any technical isssues) of a rather peculiar man I had coffee with after I just got my IIIf. It really is an absolute joy using this camera, and I hope Ffordes can sort out whatever might be wrong with it, and I'll be thankful if you give me your input as to what it might be.

 

[ray*j*gun]

I'm sure you will get some expert advice from other members who are truly technicians but it appears to me that the shutter is not opening smoothly or evenly which the cold would exacerbate. You didn't mention if the camera had been serviced and if not it probably needs a "CLA". In any event it should not be difficult to correct and I agree that Leica LTM's are a joy to use its always my default camera when I have the choice.

Good luck!

 

[Nikon Bob]

Considering the indoor shot taken with a, presumably, warm camera turned out OK I would agree with Ray. I take it there is a fairly big difference between indoor and outdoor temperatures this time of year in Sweden. If that is the case and the camera got chilled to the point that old lube got stiff then your shutter could become erratic with the results you have shown. A good CLA might be all you need but I am not an expert.

Bob

 

[StaaleS]

>The third and final issue that I've identified so far are two blank shots with a dark streak down the middle that I suspect came about when I accidentally tripped the shuttter whilst my thumb was resting against the shutter speed dial, does this sound likely?

Well, if you snag the shutter speed dial on a Barnack, it will affect the shutter progression. This is one of the misfeatures of the design. So yes, it could be the reason. Fingers off 🙂

 

[taskoni]

I had similar problem with my Leica III a and still have it. CLA must be the solution - now I am avoiding certain shutter speeds and compensating with aperture or pushing the film later. Here in Vilnius is only one place to cla my camera but the repairman is booked for months ahead. In Sweden must be more places so it's an easy task. Good luck.
BTW, I love the second picture as it is now!

 

[Brian Legge]

Any chance the streaking is stretching instead if an exposure problem? Perhaps either the temperature made the film less flexible or made the lubricants stiffer making winding more difficult? I'd expect a exposure issue to run the opposite direction across the frame.

 

[Keith]

Tha last time I saw streaking like that was from one hour processed c41 film ... amazingly similar result to your pic ... and shot with a Leica Screwmount. 😀

 

[hexiplex]

Any chance the streaking is stretching instead if an exposure problem? Perhaps either the temperature made the film less flexible or made the lubricants stiffer making winding more difficult? I'd expect a exposure issue to run the opposite direction across the frame.

That is possible, I really have no idea... Did some googling and found a few threads about banding but no picture examples to go with them. I am going to run a C41 roll through the camera real quick tomorrow and see if the issue persists, will try to keep it mostly high shutter speed as I understand the banding is most common on speeds 1/200 and upwards.


Keith, wow, a similar subject matter too! So your streaks were due to film stretching rather than shutter complications? I hope that is the case with my streaks too, even after a week I have a hard time imagining my daily walks without my IIIf.

 

[charjohncarter]

I had exactly this, it needed new shutter curtains.

 

[Melvin]

Ditto, Yes, the problem is the shutter curtains. I've had this problem with a IIIF and DAG explained it to me. At 1/1000 and 1/500 the tolerances for exposure are very unforgiving, any slight discrepancy will cause problems. When the old curtains dry out they develop bumps along one edge, and that is enough to cause the streaks of underexposure that you are seeing. You'll notice that the photo without any issues is an interior, low light shot which I assume was taken at a lower shutter speed.
Having looked at this forum for the last 5 or 10 years I can tell you that it comes up regularly as a problem.
In my case the curtains also started to get pinholes. You might consider just shooting the camera at 1/200 and below...

 

[hexiplex]

Thanks everyone, I emailed Ffordes and waiting for a reply currently. The camera will go back for repair (or replacement) under warranty... That is after I shoot a few farewell rolls on low shutter speeds.

 

[georg16nik]

IMHO, shutter replacement wont be needed.
With most of the IIIf's, the transit time of the slit for all speeds on the high speed dial is 1/30 second (1/50 in some batches).
The slit transit distance is 36mm - right?
At the 1/1000 setting, 1/30 divided by 1/1000 multiplied by 36mm is close to 1mm, the theoretical width of the slit at 1/1000. However, due to old lubricant or not properly adjusted curtain tensions.. that slit width might vary from 0,X to ~ 1,X - especially in such temperature ranges.
In most of the LTM Leicas, when You set the high speeds right - the low speeds tend to get faster than what it says on the shutter speed dial, so if You have a 1/1000 in ~ +/- 10% range, then 1/60 is gonna be (in most cases) faster and more like 1/80 or even 1/100.
1/100 would become 1/140 and so on.
If You want a good balance, have the speeds set to work correct on the lows, so that You have a real 1/30, 1/60 etc etc and let the high ones 1/500 & 1/1000 as is, probably they will be more like ~ 1/400 & 1/700.
By doing that, You will secure that Your negatives wont be underexposed across all speeds.
In Your current situation, what is happening is a very tiny slit - the 1st and 2nd curtain travels almost without a slit or a very small one - thats why You see kind a horizontal texture across the frame.
Also, keep in mind that even M series don't have "real" 1/500 or 1/1000 ... they always fall on the slow side.

good luck,
G

 

[tjh]

I've had this streaking issue on two Leica screwmount cameras. I have a IIIc that had this problem on its way back from DAG right now.

Both DAG and another repair person working on my IIIf years ago said that the shutter curtain deteriorates where it bends around the end of the curtain next to the slit. DAG said that the rubberized coating on the curtain pushes through the fabric. This leads to an irregular edge on the slit. Since the slit is very narrow, one gets streaking due to less exposure where the end of the curtain protrudes into the slit.

The solution is to get new shutter curtains.

 

[Nikon Bob]

Morgan

Be sure and let us know what the problem turned out to be.

Bob

 

[hexiplex]

Very strange... Just got back a roll of C41 film that I shot with my IIIf, and I cannot see the streaking issues on the shots I took at 1/1000, 1/200 or 1/500! I am thankful, as that must mean that my IIIf just doesn't like the cold (all the high shutter speed shots were made inside, or outside before the camera had a chance to cool off). I am still sending the camera off to Ffordes as I can see some halfway exposed frames on medium speeds (1/50 mainly) on this roll as well.