IF a fast ZM 50mm came out - f1 or f1.2?

IF a fast ZM 50mm came out - f1 or f1.2?

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kram

kram

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If there was to be a new fast 50mm from Zeiss in M mount, what would be the best for you?
A Uber Sonnar f1.2, smallest lightest 50mm ever produced (note, that just means it will be less than the old leica f1.2 mass 450g), great Sonnar style bokeh, focus shift, vignetting, high resistance to flare, minimal distortion or:

A modern f1, higher resolution wide open than the old Noctilux-M and current VC Nokton f1.1, mass same or greater than the old Noctilux-M (580-630g), less vignetting that the above uber Sonnar lens, very slight focus shift, distortion similar to old Noctilux-M?

Third option: You don't give a monkeys about lens faster than f2, and you would prefer a state of the art 50mm f2.8 (6/7 elements, non-collapsible). Zero distortion, diffraction limited at f3.5, no vignetting to speak of, physics dictate it would be slightly bigger and heaver than the current ZM 35mm f2.8 C (~230g):D

Note the killer app for both the fast lens would be, to focus closer than 1m, say 0.85m, which none of the othe fast 50's do.
 
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I find a 1.4 max aperture as optimal for a fast lens. Lens size can still be small.
 
I used to be all about the fast lenses, but in reality shallow DOF does not suit my types of shots, and the faff with back focus and range finder alignment does not suit me either.

f/2 is plenty for me, and that means lenses can be small, light, and cheaper.
 
kram said:
If there was to be a new fast 50mm from Zeiss in M mount, what would be the best for you?
A Uber Sonnar f1.2, smallest lightest 50mm ever produced (note, that just means it will be less than the old leica f1.2 mass 450g), great Sonnar style bokeh, focus shift, vignetting, high resistance to flare, minimal distortion or:

A modern f1, higher resolution wide open than the old Noctilux-M and current VC Nokton f1.1, mass same or greater than the old Noctilux-M (580-630g), less vignetting that the above uber Sonnar lens, very slight focus shift, distortion similar to old Noctilux-M?

Third option: You don't give a monkeys about lens faster than f2, and you would prefer a state of the art 50mm f2.8 (6/7 elements, non-collapsible). Zero distortion, diffraction limited at f3.5, no vignetting to speak of, physics dictate it would be slightly bigger and heaver than the current ZM 35mm f2.8 C (~230g):D

Note the killer app for both the fast lens would be, to focus closer than 1m, say 0.85m, which none of the othe fast 50's do.
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Option 1 and 2 would both be really nice. What bothers me is your phrasing: the option 2 'slight focus shift' would imply that the option 1 focus shift might be 'severe' and that would make focusing like Russian roulette.

So if the best of both could be combined, I'd like option 1 with 'slight focus shift' instead of just 'focus shift' and I'd love getting that lens.
 
Any fast lens has focus shift that I believe only a floating element can correct to some degree.

I see no reason to go faster than what the C-Sonnar already offers. Too many competitors there anyways.

What would interest me though is a f2 or slower in the oldschool tradition of low contrast and high res. Something like my collapsible cron, minus the wear, plus the shorter throw and better front element of modern lenses ;)

I wish more classics would be re-issued (Elmars, Summar, Triotar, Tessar). Can't say I care about super fast, super high contrast (especially that now we can easily compensate for low contrast lenses).
 
JSU said:
Though not a 50, my L-Hex 60/1.2 focusses down to 0.80m and I believe the Hex 50/1.2 does as well. Granted they are both out of production.
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The Hex 50 f/1.2 is an amazing lens but a bit unwieldy. They're too large for normal RF use. Having seen the performance of a Planar 50 f/1.4 on the Nikon, I think Zeiss could push the envelope a bit and make a faster Planar.

I haven't used the 60 f/1.2 Hex, but I imagine it to be fantastic as well. 58mm filter thread means it's probably a bit lighter than the 50 f/1.2 Hex.
 
I think a 50mm f/3.x or f/4 in the tradition of the old Contarex lenses would be awesome. Something that will close focus down to .5m and be diffraction limited at full aperture. Zeiss has produced some amazing products in late years so they can certainly get close to or actually produce a 50 that would be a resolution king. The conservative aperture would help to keep it small.
Mere conjecture, of course.

Phil Forrest
 
Folks, A fast lens (f1-1.2) that focuses to 0.7 would be great, but we all should know the depth of field would be tiny. I suggested 0.85 as a compromise. I and a few other people find the minimum focusing distance of 1m a little restricting now and again. Also it would be a reason to choose the ZM over a fast second hand Leica or the Nokton f1.1.
I actually like the 1/3 aperture stops of the zm lenses.
Focus shift on fast lens can be compensated with aspherical element(s). However, Zeiss would then probably manufacture it in Germany with a sky high price tag.
Focus shift of the Uber Sonnar would be a tinny bit more than the current f1.5.

Note, the new leica f0.95 is 700g and, I hear, they can't keep up with the demand.
 
Cosina

Cosina

Hi, i´d love to see a sonnar aspherical but the greatness of this lens is the small size...
Between 1.2 and 1.5 the difference is small i can´t see any difference when shooting with my sonnar or my canon 1.2 (except optics of course).
Voigt and Zeiss have their share of the market and being the same factory that makes them i don´t think they will compete.
So the VC nokton f1.1 will be the only fast RF lens we´ll see for the time being...

Bye
 
Roger Hicks said:
Anyone here ever spent much time talking to lens designers?

Cheers,

R.
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Yup. That's why I said Zeiss should release a no holds barred very conservative aperture 50. It would still be expensive but it's realistic unlike the conjecture of a ~$300 50mm f/1 with no focus shift, floating elements, aspherics and super close focus. All fantasy.
But a super sharp, flat field 50mm f/4 with a bit of extended close focus range is much more realistic.

Phil Forrest
 
Hi Roger no, but I have been reading up more on lens parameters. Its interesting to see the size of new SLR optics (zf 35mm f1.4 and the Samyaung springs to mind). They are massive just to get the improved performance through more elements, floating groups etc.
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Yup. That's why I said Zeiss should release a no holds barred very conservative aperture 50. It would still be expensive but it's realistic unlike the conjecture of a ~$300 50mm f/1 with no focus shift, floating elements, aspherics and super close focus. All fantasy.
But a super sharp, flat field 50mm f/4 with a bit of extended close focus range is much more realistic.

Phil Forrest
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Dear Phil,

Well, quite. Even so, I'm not sure what the market would be for an f/3.2 or f/3.5 (faster than f/4 purely for marketing purposes). Sure, it's do-able, unlike most of the fantasies here. But it doesn't really matter. The effective limit to resolution with 35mm is imposed by film flatness/film location: anything over 125 lp/mm cannot be relied upon, for these reasons, never mind RF coupling accuracy. There are already lenses delivering 200+ lp/mm with focus bracketing, so who needs more?

Cheers,

R.
 
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