if kodak dies

[maddoc]

Well to be fair, neither is the death of the Euro 😱

The simple solution is of course to buy and shoot lots of Tri-X! If there's the demand, it will be profitable for Kodak (or some other entity) to produce the supply. Limited or no demand, and well we know how that will end...

To my knowledge, > 90% of the demand for Kodak film comes from the movie industry now since surveillance, research and medical imaging has gone digital step-by-step. The few of us still using film won`t buy enough of it to keep the large-scale production lines of Kodak or Fuji busy.

BTW, does anybody know if Fuji still produces any BW film or are they just selling off their stock ?

 

[Kolame]

To my knowledge, > 90% of the demand for Kodak film comes from the movie industry now since surveillance, research and medical imaging has gone digital step-by-step. The few of us still using film won`t buy enough of it to keep the large-scale production lines of Kodak or Fuji […]

This is why I always said (also in this thread) why it'd be good, if give some of our money to Ilford, because they don't produce for an industry, but for us, the photographers. Maybe T-Max is a little finer then Delta and Tri-X more famous than HP5+, but they are comparable and Ilford has something for everyone.

 

[tunalegs]

TBH, I've never liked any of Ilford's films. If that's all we had left, I wouldn't care much about film anymore.

 

[Kolame]

TBH, I've never liked any of Ilford's films. If that's all we had left, I wouldn't care much about film anymore.

What about Efke and Foma?

 

[sevo]

Another question: Which companies are producing film right now?

Fuji
Kodak
Ilford
Efke
Lucky
Foma

These are the ones, I know, which ones did I forget?

Positively Agfa Gevaert (their main non-consumer business never went bankrupt), Filmotec (former Orwo) and Inoviscoat (former Agfa). None of these currently cast a film targeted at the consumer market in production quantity, but they do aerial, technical, x-ray, archiving and other special purpose films - and some of these get rebranded for the enthusiast market, in Germany mostly by Mahn ("Maco" and "Rollei") and Fotoimpex ("Adox"), but there might be more vendors abroad.

Wephota, the former Tura, still seem to be casting micrography emulsions on glass plates. They even have or had a film or two in recent years, but according to some sources that might be cast by Filmotec.

All of the above, and some more, have paper coating facilities - with most luxury inkjet papers essentially being fibre/baryta papers with a silver-free coat, that technology has a second market independent of film photography.

 

[Kolame]

Thanks for the info!

 

[sevo]

I think your comments about these AGFA films are incorrect. The same films here. It states Brand New dated 2013. APX400 is in development and may be available by late 2011, http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=2271

Different things. The film marketed as AgfaPhoto are old APX leftovers from Agfa (I hope so - given that they aren't exactly honest in the expiry dating, they might as well be dishonest altogether, packing something else that they found in their attic). There is no "brand new" APX 100, and there won't be that soon - Adox/Inoviscoat are working on a APX 400 successor (to be marketed under the Adox brand), and have often stated that they will not even begin tackling APX 100 until the market is cleared of the Agfa remains. There is no point in introducing a new premium film as long as a cheap reseller is still trading the faded remains of its predecessor at bargain prices...

 

[thegman]

I really hope Kodak comes through this, maybe with the film division as a separate entity from the rest of Kodak. If their existence depended on film, then maybe we'd see some more interesting developments. Having said that, in the theoretical event of Kodak going completely bankrupt, and never making film again, Ilford, Fujifilm and the rest would surely see a huge upturn in sales, which may mean interesting times ahead.

Like I say, I hope Kodak makes it past this, for me, they're the all-round best film producer (for me!), especially in colour. For B&W I think alternatives are easy to come by, but for Portra and Ektar, less so.

 

[Nigel Meaby]

Hi Sevo
It seems you have some knowledge on this so I'm not doubting the accuracy of what you say. It seems then what these websites are stating is misleading then? Stating that Agfa Photo are developing APX400 which may be available late 2011 implies to me it's not old APX leftovers. That is the way I interpret that line. Or do they have a deal with Adox to re-brand the film they are developing under the Agfa photo name also? If not what is it Agfa Photo are developing?

 

[sevo]

Hi Sevo
It seems you have some knowledge on this so I'm not doubting the accuracy of what you say. It seems then what these websites are stating is misleading then? Stating that Agfa Photo are developing APX400

AgfaPhoto/Lupus aren't developing or producing anything, except maybe marketing campaigns for the contents of their warehouses and whatever cheap merchandise they currently are buying in - the company that got hold of AgfaPhoto's name after the insolvency is a management buyout of its (consumer) marketing department.

which may be available late 2011 implies to me it's not old APX leftovers. That is the way I interpret that line. Or do they have a deal with Adox to re-brand the film they are developing under the Agfa photo name also?

Not that I am aware of. It is far more likely that the dealer or importer does not know the difference, or tries to cash in on the hype around the Adox APX revival by misrepresenting the remains of the AgfaPhoto attic as that (not yet available except in test quantities) film...

 

[Nigel Meaby]

AgfaPhoto aren't developing or producing anything, except maybe marketing campaigns for the contents of their warehouses and whatever cheap merchandise they currently are buying in - the company that got hold of AgfaPhoto's name after the insolvency is a management buyout of its (consumer) marketing department.



Not that I am aware of. It is far more likely that the dealer or importer does not know the difference, or tries to cash in on the hype around the Adox APX revival by misrepresenting the remains of the AgfaPhoto attic as that (not yet available except in test quantities) film...

I doubt this very much as Silverprint and Ag Photographic are two of the most reputable and knowledgeable dealers in the UK and usually know what they are talking about. I think I will drop them both an email and see what they say.

 

[HHPhoto]

Another question: Which companies are producing film right now?

Fuji
Kodak
Ilford
Efke
Lucky
Foma

These are the ones, I know, which ones did I forget?

Oh, you have forgotten one of the biggest:
Agfa-Gevaert (Antwerpen, Belgium; www.agfa.com)
They coat about 1 million m² of film products every day! They recently had an official announcement concerning this.
They are producing films for the movie industry, microfilms (e.g. the famous Agfa Copex Rapid and HDP 13 = Adox CMS 20), aerial films, surveillance films and PCB films.
By the way, they are also producing color films, therefore there are not only Kodak, Fuji, Ilford Suisse and Lucky in the color game.

Furthermore there are
Filmotec (Germany)
Shanghai (China)
Tasma (Russia)
Ilford Suisse (Ilford Micrographic color film).

And I really doubt that Kodak will stop film production.
They are profitable.
Due to official Kodak statements the demand for photo film is slowly beginning to stabilize.
Some market segments show even strong growth, e.g. the toy camera movement.
LSI has growth rates of 30 - 100% p.a., they are doubling their film sales this year.
Already more than 1 million lomographers worldwide, and the number is rapidly increasing. Lomo and all the toy camera movement is a mass market now.
In Singapore for example there is a toy camera movement called 'Lomotion' with own forum and more than 7000 participants.
In December the LSI will open a Lomography Gallery Store in Singapore.
Next week they open another one in Santa Monica, some weeks later one in San Francisco and one in Austin, this year an additional one in Sao Paulo, Manchester (UK) and Cologne, Germany.
Next year further big gallery stores will be opened in Chicago, Miami, Mexico City, Edinburgh, Munich, Istanbul, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, Manila and Seoul.

By the way, 95% of the lomographers are using color film, and 50% of them slide film (especially for cross processing).

The data is against all this color film doom and gloom.

Cheers, Jan

 

[Kolame]

I knew, I forgot some, that's why I asked 😉. I'm a big fan of CoRa myself. 😀

 

[HHPhoto]

I doubt this very much as Silverprint and Ag Photographic are two of the most reputable and knowledgeable dealers in the UK and usually know what they are talking about. I think I will drop them both an email and see what they say.

Sevo is right.
All currently sold AgfaPhoto APX 100 is still old stock from the last production run in Leverkusen in 2005.

The new production at InovisCoat (emulsion making and coating) and Adox (cutting and spooling) is not working so far.
That is official by Mirko Boedekker from Adox.

Cheers, Jan

 

[sevo]

I doubt this very much as Silverprint and Ag Photographic are two of the most reputable and knowledgeable dealers in the UK and usually know what they are talking about.

Well, they obviously are wrong in this case. It is very likely AgfaPhoto a.k.a. Lupus Imaging are misrepresenting their film - they aren't exactly into honesty in marketing - and in this case, their marketing drivel did not get filtered out down the line.

At any rate, AgfaPhoto APX100 in this packaging is (and has been, for years) all over Germany - the only readily available black and white film in the neighbourhood drugstore now that its faster brother APX400 is out of stock, and a nice film even given its age, even more so as it often is sold cheaper than Efke or Foma films. But "brand new" it isn't - the last casting was at least seven years ago. The "new APX 100" is not even in the test stage yet, and whenever it will appear, it will not be called Agfa APX 100, but Adox AP100 (just like the "new APX 400" is Adox AP400).

 

[Kolame]

As far, as I remember the "new" PAN 100 won't really be "new", but they want to get as close to the old APX 100 as possible - different to the PAN 400 which shell be competitive and is newly developed, as normal APX 400 today isn't up to the standards.

 

[Nigel Meaby]

Ok I've had a reply back from one of the dealers. He has asked me not to quote him or copy and paste his reply onto a forum so I will paraphrase.

The APX100 is original Agfa stock with an expiry date of Dec 2012 which has been nicely packaged by Lupus Imaging who have the rights to use the AGFA Photo brand.

APX 400 and a new APX 100 are currently under development and will probably re-appear next year. They will be made under contract by a third party for Lupus. A 120 version may well see the light of day too.

The Colour films, Precisa and Vista, are made under contract in Japan by Fujifilm for Agfa Photo.

 

[sepiareverb]

BTW, does anybody know if Fuji still produces any BW film or are they just selling off their stock ?

Good question. From the dwindling supplies available it seems like maybe the answer is no.

 

[FalseDigital]

Good question. From the dwindling supplies available it seems like maybe the answer is no.

I keep hearing different answers about this but all of them make me cry inside. Sounds like if it's not discontinued yet, it will be in the near future.

 

[jsrockit]

The "Lomography" people will buy Kodak's B&W and then charge three times the price for it... or more. 😉