If money was not an issue...

See, I bought my M6TTL because I wanted one to use. I had two Bessa bodies, excellent cameras but each limited somewhat in what they were good at, and some lenses and other things that I didn't use, so I sold them all and bought my Leica for no additional money. I am using the same lenses I had before but have a lighter bag. In the end I sold 5 items to get one, but besides the Bessas which I replaced, there was no loss to me.

I can understand the anti Leica sentiment, I was there until recently myself, but they are excellent cameras to use. If money was not an issue, I am surprised that more people would not jump in and grab the brass ring.
 
rover said:
(snip)...I can understand the anti Leica sentiment, I was there until recently myself, but they are excellent cameras to use. If money was not an issue, I am surprised that more people would not jump in and grab the brass ring.
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How about those of us who have been there and left, of our own volition? I'm not "anti Leica " -- I just don't agree with the "brass ring." Yes, they are excellent cameras, but in my opinion not the best.
 
A fair assesment by a user. Not everyone is going to like the same thing and I am looking at it as a user too. From a practical point of view, I would buy and use it and enjoy it. The potential resale value or fear of scuffing it up don't enter my mind. And when you add the "money is not issue" factor, that matters even less. The value to me isn't the $ investment, it is the performance for me as a tool. My camera is more valuable to me becasue it is more useful to me than the other two I sold. You think that way about another camera.
 
i'm with d2 on this one.

i had a leica before the rf renascence hit.
i have been shooting rangefinders exclusively for years.
i don't have another system/format whatever.

i have what i choose. i shoot what i like.
i'm not anti leica. it is by no means a brass ring for me.

the brass ring for me is the canon p camera and i wonder when the leica guys will come to THEIR senses.

this has been a good exchange and discussion. it has helped me to see things a bit more clearly.
i think i'm ready to sell the bessa kit now.

joe
 
I appreciate your comments, Ralph, and I regret adding my opinion at the end of my post above -- it's not relevant. I honestly believe that Leica's are indeed excellent cameras and undoubtedly the best new rangefinder built today. As unlikely as it may seem I'm not really the ass-hole that I seem to be; I just like to encourage people to question their values and assumptions. Again in all honesty I would not put you or any other Leica owner that I am acquainted with on this forum into this category, but I believe at large there is a significant group of what I call "Leica Lemmings."
 
By the way, I think a Hasselblad is the best camera :).

No offense taken Doug, nor is any regret appropriate.
 
wait a minute!

d2 what are you saying?

if what you say is true...then...that means i'm an...naaaaahhh, can't be!

joe
lol
 
Money for me would still be an issue since I always have the tendency to say to myself, "Yes, this is a very nice camera, smooth fit and finish, whisper quiet shutter, etc. but for the same cash I could have at least a dozen others", and I've always been a great one for quantity (of decent cameras at least) over quality. Probably the reason I have so many Feds, Yashicas, Konicas and Minoltas. I also prefer the look of a brassed black camera to a mint camera since I like the "character" it adds plus to me it's proof of a history behind the camera. The whole point of camera collecting/using versus camera using exclusively is the sense of history and wondering where this camera has been and what great sights it's photographed for posterity. I don't condemn anyone's choice whether pro or con, just for myself I find this more satisfying. Having held and tried a few of Nikon Bob's Leicas I can honestly say they are wonderful cameras, just not for me. If I can't feel ok setting a camera down in the snow, on a grassy field or even in a camera bag for fear of marking it a bit or having someone run off with it, it just adds a tension I'd prefer to avoid to my hobby. Like I said they're wonderful pieces of gear, just not for me any more than I'd choose a Mercedes or BMW over my Hyundai or Rambler. Common or average they may be, but give me a Petri or Agfa and I'm happy as a clam. Leica or Rollie would be great, but I'd be scared to use it for fear of either damaging it or having it grow legs and run off. Then for me it would be just another shelf queen among many.
 
Ahhh Betram is right I can't afford a Leica, monetarily or psychologically. Which is why I am not using one.

Ultimately this thread was to stimulate discussion in what photographers value in their camera and I think it succeeded in that.

Thanks for all your input

Nick
 
rover said:
By the way, I think a Hasselblad is the best camera :).

No offense taken Doug, nor is any regret appropriate.
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Oh boy, I'm not sure I have the energy for this, especially this late in the evening. Now I have to once again respectfully agree to disagree; I think Rollei studied the Hasselblad thoroughly and did them one better with the SL66...isn't this fun??? :D :D :D
 
backalley photo said:
wait a minute!

d2 what are you saying?

if what you say is true...then...that means i'm an...naaaaahhh, can't be!

joe
lol
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...an independent thinker? We have always seen that quality in you, Joe. ;)
 
nickchew said:
Ahhh Betram is right I can't afford a Leica, monetarily or psychologically. Which is why I am not using one.

Ultimately this thread was to stimulate discussion in what photographers value in their camera and I think it succeeded in that.

Thanks for all your input

Nick
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Nick,
Thank you for providing the inspiration for a spirited and civil exchange of views. This will be redundant for some, but my father and brother shoot with Leicas and within the family we have this go'round on a regular basis. If I did not know the history of Zeiss and a little of how the classic Contaxes were designed and built I'd be shooting with Leicas myself.

I appreciate and am in absolute awe of what has been accomplished technologically with the cameras available today, but personally I am hopelessly mired in the mechanical era -- I haven't been forced there, it's just where I choose to be.

This sure is a fine forum -- a really great group :)
 
wierdcollector said:
(snip)...I also prefer the look of a brassed black camera to a mint camera since I like the "character" it adds plus to me it's proof of a history behind the camera. The whole point of camera collecting/using versus camera using exclusively is the sense of history and wondering where this camera has been and what great sights it's photographed for posterity...(snip)
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Firstly, sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, Curt. You must have an amazing collection of cameras and I respect your commitment to using them. Akalai and I were discussing an old beater Contax "I" that much to my surprise I've become extremely fond of using, and you captured my sentiments concerning it perfectly; it's the history of who has had it, where its been and what it has seen that intrigues me. I'll be damned if this one doesn't end up just passing through my hands, though -- it may ultimately be destined for Australia;) (not with that 28/8 Tessar on it, though -- that stays in the States!)
 
Is it time for a group hug? :D ;)

This is the kind of discussion Photo.net only wishes it could have. Eat your hearts out, boys & girls on PN! :p

Huck
 
nickchew said:
I think I can't bring myself to buy a new or mint leica. I would really prefer ones that had some brassing on them so that I would actually use them!
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Nick, it's a difficult situation, but there's help available. I'm offering Doug's scratch and Scuff Service. Just send me your new MP or M7 and I'll wear it in a little for you.

Regarding my own purchases, I don't know... My M2 was 9 years old when I got it, and showed evidence of use. I like it. I tend to appreciate quality over quantity... and lots of it! I guess I could be persuaded to get a new M7, if cost were no barrier. :D

BTW, I think Bertram makes some very wise statements about affordabililty.
 
A suggestion to consider: if you have not already done so learn how to use incident and spot light meters (a life-long skill that will never disappoint). Then do a little research into extraordinary mechanical rangefinders; chances are the Contax II and IIa's will be mentioned. If interested, do a little more research and seek the most capable technician available to rebuild and repair these engineering jewels; you will probably discover one name that stands alone above all others: Henry Scherer (an undeclared National Treasure). Buy a camera, put your name on his waiting list and rest in the comfort of knowing that you will soon have a handbuilt refurbishment of one of the finest 35mm cameras ever made. Do you think that anything built today is likely to compare? These cameras are essentially handmade; I feel a genuine connection to the fine craftsman that rebuilt this camera when I use mine -- it means a great deal to me as a shooter. "Go and do likewise, gents. The camera's out there, you pick it up, it's yours. You don't -- I have no sympathy for you." :D :D :D

P. S. I forgot to attribute the paraphrase to "Glengarry Glen Ross."
 
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