kid_a
Established
This is my first rangefinder purchase. The local classic camera place has a Nikon S2 with silver 50/1,4 for sale right now, I'm going to check it out on Saturday. From what I've read, it's a solid camera, and should last me some time. He says it's in perfect working order, and is ready to shoot immediately.
Are there any common problems I should look out for? I've only looked through one rangefinder before, I took about 6 shots through a customer's Zeiss Ikon when he brought it in the other day. Should I look anywhere specific for wear? Anything on the lens I should examine? Like I said, I really have no rangefinder experience so any help will be really appreciated.
I was also considering the fixed lens, Konica Hexar AF. The lens is supposed to be great, and personally I do like 35 more than 50. The AF is a bit iffy for me, I think the true allure behind a rangefinder is being in complete control. Also the viewfinder on the Hexar isn't supposed to be very nice.
So, other than some quick tips as to checking it out before I buy.. Is there any other advice I can get? Something else I should be checking out before I commit? I have about a $1000 budget for a first camera and lens. The camera shop has this priced at $900. Is that fair? Should I try to work him down? Do you have examples of lower prices around so that I have something to back my lowballing up? haha..
Is the S2 a nice choice for my first foray into rangefinders?
All comments and advice are great, I'd love to chat for a bit with all of you!
Thanks,
Dylan
Are there any common problems I should look out for? I've only looked through one rangefinder before, I took about 6 shots through a customer's Zeiss Ikon when he brought it in the other day. Should I look anywhere specific for wear? Anything on the lens I should examine? Like I said, I really have no rangefinder experience so any help will be really appreciated.
I was also considering the fixed lens, Konica Hexar AF. The lens is supposed to be great, and personally I do like 35 more than 50. The AF is a bit iffy for me, I think the true allure behind a rangefinder is being in complete control. Also the viewfinder on the Hexar isn't supposed to be very nice.
So, other than some quick tips as to checking it out before I buy.. Is there any other advice I can get? Something else I should be checking out before I commit? I have about a $1000 budget for a first camera and lens. The camera shop has this priced at $900. Is that fair? Should I try to work him down? Do you have examples of lower prices around so that I have something to back my lowballing up? haha..
Is the S2 a nice choice for my first foray into rangefinders?
All comments and advice are great, I'd love to chat for a bit with all of you!
Thanks,
Dylan
kid_a
Established
Also, what is a decent, wider angle second lens? I don't see myself ever going longer than 50, I'm really not a fan, and it's for quick street stuff, so wider = better in my opinion.
How quiet is it? I'm sure I'll find out on Saturday but the more I know going into it, the better I'll be.
How quiet is it? I'm sure I'll find out on Saturday but the more I know going into it, the better I'll be.
James24
Well-known
Dylan, the S2 is a great camera.
I do think that the $900 asking price for the example in your local shop is a bit steep though. As a very rough guide, good user examples with 50mm lenses seem to be making $450-500 on ebay at the moment. Admittedly a shop charges a little more, and presumably gives you some kind of a guarantee but I would have thought $600-700 would be tops for a chrome S2 with matching 50mm lens. Maybe your haggling skills are such that you can get him down a couple of hundred dollars or so?
Anyway, things to look for........check it's clean and tidy, with no major dings. It should be for the price. Check all shutter speeds and see if they sound about right, especially the slow ones. Have a look at the shutter curtains and make sure they're good. Have a look through the excellent viewfinder on the S2, and make sure the rangefinder is clear and usable - they can go dim with age. Try out all the controls, focus wheel, wind on, rewind, etc and make sure it's all good. Check the lens for the usual - dust, fungus, haze, scratches. Check the aperture blades - there might be a little oil on them which is not the big deal it would be if it was an SLR, but obviously it's better if they're nice and dry. Extras such as a manual, case, lens caps all add to the price if they're available.
Even if you don't buy this one on Saturday, it's a good learning experience, and it will give you a chance to handle one and see if it's what you want. It's fairly quiet..........quieter than an SLR, if that's where you're coming from, but you'll be able to judge that for yourself when you try it out.
If you want wider lenses, genuine Nikon ones can still be got, and the 28mm and 35mm lenses are reasonably easy to get hold of, but the very wide ones - 21mm and 25mm are quite rare and silly expensive, however there are Cosina Voigtlander alternatives available - check out Stephen Gandy's site for these, and indeed some good S2 information.
http://cameraquest.com/
Have fun, and best of luck!
I do think that the $900 asking price for the example in your local shop is a bit steep though. As a very rough guide, good user examples with 50mm lenses seem to be making $450-500 on ebay at the moment. Admittedly a shop charges a little more, and presumably gives you some kind of a guarantee but I would have thought $600-700 would be tops for a chrome S2 with matching 50mm lens. Maybe your haggling skills are such that you can get him down a couple of hundred dollars or so?
Anyway, things to look for........check it's clean and tidy, with no major dings. It should be for the price. Check all shutter speeds and see if they sound about right, especially the slow ones. Have a look at the shutter curtains and make sure they're good. Have a look through the excellent viewfinder on the S2, and make sure the rangefinder is clear and usable - they can go dim with age. Try out all the controls, focus wheel, wind on, rewind, etc and make sure it's all good. Check the lens for the usual - dust, fungus, haze, scratches. Check the aperture blades - there might be a little oil on them which is not the big deal it would be if it was an SLR, but obviously it's better if they're nice and dry. Extras such as a manual, case, lens caps all add to the price if they're available.
Even if you don't buy this one on Saturday, it's a good learning experience, and it will give you a chance to handle one and see if it's what you want. It's fairly quiet..........quieter than an SLR, if that's where you're coming from, but you'll be able to judge that for yourself when you try it out.
If you want wider lenses, genuine Nikon ones can still be got, and the 28mm and 35mm lenses are reasonably easy to get hold of, but the very wide ones - 21mm and 25mm are quite rare and silly expensive, however there are Cosina Voigtlander alternatives available - check out Stephen Gandy's site for these, and indeed some good S2 information.
http://cameraquest.com/
Have fun, and best of luck!
Jan Van Laethem
Nikkor. What else?
James has already given you very good advice. Apart from the brightness of the viewfinder, you should also check if the rangefinder patch is properly alligned, which is crucial if you want to accurately focus the 50mm lens or anything longer.
One further tip: take a roll of film with you, load the camera and fire off a couple shots. This will allow you to see if the winding and rewinding mechanisms of the camera are sound and if the film counter works properly.
Maybe you will find the next link useful, if you go to the bottom of the page there is a link to the S2 instruction manual in pdf format and also a link to a user's guide.
http://www.nikonweb.com/s2/
I agree with James that 900 USD is a lot of money for an S2. For that price you should get a nearly mint one with the original lens caps and lens hood, camera case, etc.
One further tip: take a roll of film with you, load the camera and fire off a couple shots. This will allow you to see if the winding and rewinding mechanisms of the camera are sound and if the film counter works properly.
Maybe you will find the next link useful, if you go to the bottom of the page there is a link to the S2 instruction manual in pdf format and also a link to a user's guide.
http://www.nikonweb.com/s2/
I agree with James that 900 USD is a lot of money for an S2. For that price you should get a nearly mint one with the original lens caps and lens hood, camera case, etc.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Dylan,
I think the S2 is a very quiet camera, but you check her out your self. Take a look on EvilBay for completed S2 sales. Is the camera Black, black dial or Chrome. If she is black that's not a bad price, for chrome it seems high. If they claim to have had it CLAed, show you the receipt.
The suggestion for a few shots through her is a great one. Bring a light meter too as they might not have one (if you need it). Shot close up, wide open and check the focus. Remember, the viewfinder is not parallax correct but for focus checking it's not a big deal. Make sure the dial/wheel is smooth across the range (near to far).
Dismount the lens (once she is on infinity) and look through. If something does not look right it's not. Dust is not horrible in side as long as it's a spec or two. Get the serial numbers and make sure it's not Hot.
The economy sucks and they should be happy to take $500 - 600 USD for the set up. Again check Evilbay for what's on the market. Check www.cameraquest.com and KEH also. I would buy anything from Cameraquest as Stephen is a straight shooter and very customer service oriented. KEH has good and bad times.
I will be selling my CV 35/2.5 for a song this weekend if you're interested. I bought her used (one previous owner) and have kept her in excellent shape. I am only selling her because I got a 35/1.8 Nikkor a month ago and am very happy with her. PM me if you're interested.
B2 (;->
I think the S2 is a very quiet camera, but you check her out your self. Take a look on EvilBay for completed S2 sales. Is the camera Black, black dial or Chrome. If she is black that's not a bad price, for chrome it seems high. If they claim to have had it CLAed, show you the receipt.
The suggestion for a few shots through her is a great one. Bring a light meter too as they might not have one (if you need it). Shot close up, wide open and check the focus. Remember, the viewfinder is not parallax correct but for focus checking it's not a big deal. Make sure the dial/wheel is smooth across the range (near to far).
Dismount the lens (once she is on infinity) and look through. If something does not look right it's not. Dust is not horrible in side as long as it's a spec or two. Get the serial numbers and make sure it's not Hot.
The economy sucks and they should be happy to take $500 - 600 USD for the set up. Again check Evilbay for what's on the market. Check www.cameraquest.com and KEH also. I would buy anything from Cameraquest as Stephen is a straight shooter and very customer service oriented. KEH has good and bad times.
I will be selling my CV 35/2.5 for a song this weekend if you're interested. I bought her used (one previous owner) and have kept her in excellent shape. I am only selling her because I got a 35/1.8 Nikkor a month ago and am very happy with her. PM me if you're interested.
B2 (;->
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VinceC
Veteran
S2 shutter is loud for a rangefinder, quieter than older SLRs.
Check focus accuracy by focusing on something at infinity (or a very distant building/tower).
Check focus accuracy by focusing on something at infinity (or a very distant building/tower).
kdemas
Enjoy Life.
Listen to the focus helical as well. Sometimes people try to lube them, not a good idea, and they squeak. I know this from personal experience after buying one sight unseen.
Kent
ps- That said, it's a very easy CLA fix soit shouldn't stop you from picking up a nice unit
Kent
ps- That said, it's a very easy CLA fix soit shouldn't stop you from picking up a nice unit
BillBingham2
Registered User
There's also a standard S2 with 50/1.4 there for $795. Last camera on a big sale under cameras. Don't know seller, but the price might be better.
The New S3 is a sweat camera though.....
B2 (;->
The New S3 is a sweat camera though.....
B2 (;->
awilder
Alan Wilder
Frankly, I'd pass on the camera at that price given your preference for 35 over 50. The S2 will need a separate finder for anything other than a 50. If you must get a Nikon RF, the S3 is much improved with multiframes (fixed), single shutter dial and auto reset frame counter. The best thing about the Nikon RF is the rereleased 50/1.4 Millenium Nikkor, arguably the best 50/1.4 ever made and is on par with the 50/1.4 ASPH Summilux at 4-5X the price. Frankly, if you want a vintage RF and can't afford a Leica M, I think a Canon RF makes more sense given the plentiful numbers of used lenses it can take. The Canon P or 7 come to mind as truely great bargins.
VinceC
Veteran
The S2 is limited to the 50mm lens. If you think you'll want wide angles in the future, you have a couple of options ... an original S3 with its 35mm frameline, or you can get an external finder for the S2. The CV 28/35 minifinder is quite nice on an S2 and is actually a better finder than the built-in wide finder on a Nikon SP.
awilder
Alan Wilder
One really good thing about the S2 finder as mentioned by Vince is that due to it's simplicity, it's actually one of the best and brightest of any Nikon RF (even a new SP2005). Most other vintage Nikon RF body finders will fade a bit more than the S2 due to aging of the semisilver coating with the beamsplitter.
kid_a
Established
Thanks for the replies everyone! I figured I had bad luck becfause RFF went down right after I made my thread, I thought it was destined to be empty forever.. haha.
One point I'll make so far (I've only read the first two replies) is that this is $900 CDN, which translates to about $700USD. He said it's in excellent shooting condition and excellent aesthetic condition, he's not the type to exaggerate. He wants his customers to have the best, and have an honest salesman to go to. Wish there were more like him out there!
One point I'll make so far (I've only read the first two replies) is that this is $900 CDN, which translates to about $700USD. He said it's in excellent shooting condition and excellent aesthetic condition, he's not the type to exaggerate. He wants his customers to have the best, and have an honest salesman to go to. Wish there were more like him out there!
Stefcuoz
Established
Dylan, i'm Steve, Italian, accept RFF members advice.
In Italy Nikon RF are very rare but also in italy 700 USD is more!! i have buy a lot of S2 on EvilBay... have a look on:
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260362079933
Jim is a friend of mine and his cameras are Splendid....
Don't throw out of the window your money
In Italy Nikon RF are very rare but also in italy 700 USD is more!! i have buy a lot of S2 on EvilBay... have a look on:
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=260362079933
Jim is a friend of mine and his cameras are Splendid....
Don't throw out of the window your money
kid_a
Established
Thank you Steve. That camera does look like a good deal. I am a bit hesitant with eBay though.. I've only used it twice, and not had a good experience either time. I am $600 poorer because of their poor service and organization.
kid_a
Established
From what I can tell on eBay, though, $700 USD is pretty reasonable. If I can get within 10% of an eBay price by buying locally I definitely would prefer it.
Seems to me on eBay that the body/lens combo goes for 650-750 or so..
Seems to me on eBay that the body/lens combo goes for 650-750 or so..
kid_a
Established
Can anyone shine a light on the Nikon S2 with 50/1,4 vs. the Voigtlander R2S with Heliar 50/3,5?
The price is very very close.. I'm assuming the Nikon might have better build quality, but the Voigtlander is new so it should last a bit longer without requiring work. Is the 50/3,5 relaly THAT sharp? Cameraquest goes crazy over it! I suppose I'd be silly not to compare the two, as they're similarly priced.. just one is about 55 years older!
The price is very very close.. I'm assuming the Nikon might have better build quality, but the Voigtlander is new so it should last a bit longer without requiring work. Is the 50/3,5 relaly THAT sharp? Cameraquest goes crazy over it! I suppose I'd be silly not to compare the two, as they're similarly priced.. just one is about 55 years older!
snegron
Established
As others have mentioned, the S2 is a great camera. I would add to the list of things to look out for mentioned above the following; clearness of the viewfinder (if it is too green, it will probably only get darker); also, check the film advance lever. After winding a frame, it should spring back without stalling.
Price-wise, as others have mentioned, you can probably find one for a bit less. Of course, the S2 (or any other Nikon Rangefinder) is fun to use and will definitely make a fantastic conversation starter with anyone who admires classic cameras! Not that a Leica M (insert number here) won't attract attention, it's just that there were less Nikon rangefinders made, and they look so much cooler (especially the early ones with the original Nikon font; the ones with the curvy "N")! (sorry, just my humble, biased opinion)
Price-wise, as others have mentioned, you can probably find one for a bit less. Of course, the S2 (or any other Nikon Rangefinder) is fun to use and will definitely make a fantastic conversation starter with anyone who admires classic cameras! Not that a Leica M (insert number here) won't attract attention, it's just that there were less Nikon rangefinders made, and they look so much cooler (especially the early ones with the original Nikon font; the ones with the curvy "N")!
(sorry, just my humble, biased opinion)
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kid_a
Established
I agree they are so, so beautiful.
Almost mesmerizing! I was considering a Bessa R with 35/1.7 lens, but the Nikon is just too pretty to pass on I think. Once I get my hands on it tomorrow I'm sure I won't be able to say no.
Almost mesmerizing! I was considering a Bessa R with 35/1.7 lens, but the Nikon is just too pretty to pass on I think. Once I get my hands on it tomorrow I'm sure I won't be able to say no.
bobkonos
Well-known
Nikon S2 vs. C/V R2S
Nikon S2 vs. C/V R2S
For what it is worth, I have both cameras and enjoy both, especially liking the meter of the R2S. In fact, a favorite combination of mine is the modern R2S with the classic Nikon 50mm f1.4 lens. After reading all of this thread, I have to ask you this: what is it that points you to a Nikon S2? If the Nikon lenses drive this purchase, that is great because they are wonderful. If it is the allure of owning a rangefinder from the classic era, then that too is great and the Nikon S2 was a very popular rangefinder in the 1950's-1960's. But you should consider at the least Leica M and Canon rangefinders from that era, because your desire to use lenses wider then 50 make the S2 a little more cumbersome but doable. I agree with another poster here that the Canon rangefinders should be looked at for their build quality and ability to take many fine Leica and Canon lenses. Good luck and enjoy the learning curve.
Nikon S2 vs. C/V R2S
Can anyone shine a light on the Nikon S2 with 50/1,4 vs. the Voigtlander R2S with Heliar 50/3,5?
The price is very very close.. I'm assuming the Nikon might have better build quality, but the Voigtlander is new so it should last a bit longer without requiring work. Is the 50/3,5 relaly THAT sharp? Cameraquest goes crazy over it! I suppose I'd be silly not to compare the two, as they're similarly priced.. just one is about 55 years older!
For what it is worth, I have both cameras and enjoy both, especially liking the meter of the R2S. In fact, a favorite combination of mine is the modern R2S with the classic Nikon 50mm f1.4 lens. After reading all of this thread, I have to ask you this: what is it that points you to a Nikon S2? If the Nikon lenses drive this purchase, that is great because they are wonderful. If it is the allure of owning a rangefinder from the classic era, then that too is great and the Nikon S2 was a very popular rangefinder in the 1950's-1960's. But you should consider at the least Leica M and Canon rangefinders from that era, because your desire to use lenses wider then 50 make the S2 a little more cumbersome but doable. I agree with another poster here that the Canon rangefinders should be looked at for their build quality and ability to take many fine Leica and Canon lenses. Good luck and enjoy the learning curve.
kid_a
Established
The main thing, to be honest, pointing me towards an S2 is that it's what's available in the local shop! haha.
I own $12,000 worth of Nikon DSLR gear, and trust them as a company. Going Nikon RF just seemed like the natural progression (regression?). From all the reading I've done (probably about 10 hours worth this week alone, it's been dead at work), it's a great camera.
The only thing I'm really worried about is its age. I think "I LOVE early 1980's VW's, but they're bound to break down far sooner than a newer one". It's the same story with the S2. I know it's built to an extremely high standard, but it's inevitable. If I go with a Voigtlander I'd assume that it would outlast the Nikon by a mile.. or am I not giving Nikon build quality enough credit? I'm not sure.
I'm not at all interested in the Canon, it may be biased/unfair, but I just wouldn't enjoy using their cameras. They may be just as good, but it wouldn't feel right to me. They aesthetic design seems ugly to me as well. As silly as it seems to be, considering the aesthetic qualities of a camera, it is a determining factor to me. I think classic Leicas and Nikons are some of the most beautiful machines ever built, and would take pride in wearing one around my neck. I wouldn't feel that way about a Canon.
What Leicas should I check out in the $800USD and less range? I always kind of steered clear of them just because I was sure it would be too expensive to get something equal to the S2 of comparable to a Voigtlander.
I own $12,000 worth of Nikon DSLR gear, and trust them as a company. Going Nikon RF just seemed like the natural progression (regression?). From all the reading I've done (probably about 10 hours worth this week alone, it's been dead at work), it's a great camera.
The only thing I'm really worried about is its age. I think "I LOVE early 1980's VW's, but they're bound to break down far sooner than a newer one". It's the same story with the S2. I know it's built to an extremely high standard, but it's inevitable. If I go with a Voigtlander I'd assume that it would outlast the Nikon by a mile.. or am I not giving Nikon build quality enough credit? I'm not sure.
I'm not at all interested in the Canon, it may be biased/unfair, but I just wouldn't enjoy using their cameras. They may be just as good, but it wouldn't feel right to me. They aesthetic design seems ugly to me as well. As silly as it seems to be, considering the aesthetic qualities of a camera, it is a determining factor to me. I think classic Leicas and Nikons are some of the most beautiful machines ever built, and would take pride in wearing one around my neck. I wouldn't feel that way about a Canon.
What Leicas should I check out in the $800USD and less range? I always kind of steered clear of them just because I was sure it would be too expensive to get something equal to the S2 of comparable to a Voigtlander.