I'm lost with "Street Photography" definition.

People ridicule winogrand for what he says then when it suits them he is dragged out. He's not even here ...maybe no one noticed.
Very bad form to put words into a dead mouth...

I love Gary Winogrand (wish he was still here) who in his own words clearly said the following about the term "street photography"

"Well, I'm not going to get into that. I think that those kind of distinctions and lists of titles like "street photographer" are so stupid"

Source:
http://www.jnevins.com/garywinograndreading.htm

I have also heard him mention similar in a video interview.
 
Ok so we have established you dont like the term "street photography" because it has the word street in it ...so what do you think it should be called? What did Garry say it should be called "Zoo Photography", you know he said that, yea?

It will take me seconds to edit my website and call it whatever you think street photography should be renamed to and even the wiki could be altered to include your new name for it. I suppose we could email the admin at flickr and here and ...well everywhere.

So whats it called now?
 
No we've established I agree with Adams and Winogrand that such terms are silly and restrict creativity. Winogrand was making a joke about how silly those kind of terms are. And if you are having trouble getting that i really doubt you understand what Adams was saying.

I think instead of editing your website you should edit your thinking and try not to be so rigid with a desire to put everything into nice little neat categories. You might be surprised how freeing that can be. Just let go and see where your vision takes you. Let all the others that want things neat and tied up worry about what place it fits into. Just take photographs.

And seems like you are the only one that cares about what to call it. Adams and Winogrand certainly didn't care. And you've totally missed the point if you think it should be labeled anything other than a photograph.
 
Photography doesn't need labels or descriptions, the image says it all. Labels and descriptions are generally for things you cannot see.
 
No we've established I agree with Adams and Winogrand that such terms are silly and restrict creativity. Winogrand was making a joke about how silly those kind of terms are. And if you are having trouble getting that i really doubt you understand what Adams was saying.

I think instead of editing your website you should edit your thinking and try not to be so rigid with a desire to put everything into nice little neat categories. You might be surprised how freeing that can be. Just let go and see where your vision takes you. Let all the others that want things neat and tied up worry about what place it fits into. Just take photographs.

What do you mean, just take photographs ...what kind? What kind do you think I'd be good at? Now I'm worried that you'll say I should do whatsaname photography and that my creativity will be restricted and that I wont know what you mean because defining it will destroy it. ...lol, is that right? did I get it right.

And when you say I should edit my thinking does it involve a sack and some water?
 
Yep thats what Adams and Winogrand did to. They just took photographs and didn't worry about the neat little piles some need to put them into. You should try it.

After reading what Winogrand and Adams had to say, you think they said Oh I'm going out today and make _________ photography? I say they just went out and created and let folks put them into neat little piles. I doubt they even gave it any thought unless asked a question about it where they both replied that it's silly and doesn't matter to them. It doesn't matter to me either. I just take photographs the way I see. If its A or B to someone then so it is but it really means very little to me.
 
Great book you might want to read by Betty Edwards, Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain and by your comments it's very evident those theories are not outdated.
 
....with Adams and Winogrand that such terms are silly and restrict creativity. Winogrand was making a joke about how silly those kind of terms are. ....

....Let all the others that want things neat and tied up worry about what place it fits into. Just take photographs.

..... / ......

Yep thats what Adams and Winogrand did to. They just took photographs and didn't worry about the neat little piles some need to put them into. .....

After reading what Winogrand and Adams had to say, ... I say they just went out and created and let folks put them into neat little piles. I doubt they even gave it any thought unless asked a question about it where they both replied that it's silly and doesn't matter to them. ......

now obviously, they took photographs of things that interested them, and they got better as they took more photographs and learned more about the things they liked to photograph... no mater what genre we may put it in... most of us do like their work. The point they made, was go out and take pictures... maybe they should have added "...of the things you like to photograph".....But, we all knew that was what they meant.. so, they did not and had no need to say it.

Surely, we can at least see that while hearing or reading their thoughts on the mater?
Do some really need to be walked through some basic English usage about context to see that "...of the things you like to photograph"
is the obvious conclusion of what they said... Just go out and take photographs?

It was/is understood.... by their life's work....
That they took photographs of things that interested them, and others categorized their work... they had no interest to categorize themselves.. although they knew it did fit a certain genre...they did not like to have their work pigeon-holed in their heads.
 
now obviously, they took photographs of things that interested them, and they got better as they took more photographs and learned more about the things they liked to photograph... no mater what genre we may put it in... most of us do like their work. The point they made, was go out and take pictures... maybe they should have added "...of the things you like to photograph".....But, we all knew that was what they meant.. so, they did not and had no need to say it.

Surely, we can at least see that while hearing or reading their thoughts on the mater?
Do some of really need to be walked through some basic English usage about context to see that "...of the things you like to photograph"
is the obvious conclusion of what they said... Just go out and take photographs?

It was/is understood.... by their life's work....
That they took photographs of things that interested them, and others categorized their work... they had no interest to categorize themselves.. although they knew it did fit a certain genre...they did not like to have their work pigeon-holed in their heads.

According to them, in their own words, they didn't like to have their work pigeon holed at all. What they and I am saying is I don't need categories to understand my work or their work so categories are silly to think about when creating or when viewing others work. Who cares if it is _____ or______. Is it a good photograph? That is what matters and Adams was very clear when he said that in the quote I posted from him.
 
William Eggleston, from watching a few videos walked along the streets of towns taking photographs & I've never heard him referred as a street photographer. I don't even think Robert Frank's work in The Americans is referred to as a street photography but more of a documentery style of work.

Street photgraphy seems to be classified to certain individuals like Winogrand, Meyerowitz, Gilden, Marcus Hartel as well as others & well so. Only now to be broadend to include nearly every style of photography. I think today the term street photography is way too broad of a term to use. Will some day people look at Stephen Shore as a street photographer? I hope not.
 
William Eggleston, from watching a few videos walked along the streets of towns taking photographs & I've never heard him referred as a street photographer. I don't even think Robert Frank's work in The Americans is referred to as a street photography but more of a documentery style of work.

Street photgraphy seems to be classified to certain individuals like Winogrand, Meyerowitz, Gilden, Marcus Hartel as well as others & well so. Only now to be broadend to include nearly every style of photography. I think today the term street photography is way too broad of a term to use. Will some day people look at Stephen Shore as a street photographer? I hope not.

But the broader question is as Adams and Winogrand pointed out is why should these categories even matter? I think the thoughts that you just posted are clear reasons why they shouldn't.
 
But the broader question is as Adams and Winogrand pointed out is why should these categories even matter? I think the thoughts that you just posted are clear reasons why they shouldn't.
Funny that when you type 'famous Landscape photographers' Ansel along with the Weston's come up & rightly so. The broad term of 'just a photographer' is too generic & just plain wrong, but the world is too generic now a days. One reason most photography shot now is quite boring.
 
According to them, in their own words, they didn't like to have their work pigeon holed at all. What they and I am saying is I don't need categories to understand my work or their work so categories are silly to think about when creating or when viewing others work. Who cares if it is _____ or______. Is it a good photograph? That is what matters and Adams was very clear when he said that in the quote I posted from him.

OK... What I said was that "in his own head" he might have thought of his work as Street Photography... even though he did not like categories at all..he was certainly aware of where his work had standing in the general overall category of Street Photography.

When I am out on the Street, I am taking what interests me, and as I just think about stuff, at those times, I think about that my work will be considered Street Photography. As we all have... even if we hate categories...(I'm Okay with that)

a little OT.. but, in principle on thinking where your work stands as far as categories the "Public" acknowledges.
Even HCB finely got it, although he called he work "surrealizm" in many cases... he could not "SELL" that to the paying photojournalism world.. Capa told him that he would need to call his work "Photojournalism" to make a living at it.
Even though HCB did categorize his work... he still didn't like some categories, because he felt it did not represent his style..

I can't imagine that Gary W <Never> thought of his work as 'Street Photography'...he never spoke of it... but, that doesn't mean he never thought about it as a part of his style.
He never admitted it in public discussions. But it is just human nature to think about where your work fits in the overall scheme of things..He may not have like it, or even accept it publicly, BUT... us humans need to have some kind of organizational system in place just to communicate what we showing others... in large exhibitions where there is a PR angle to draw the right spectators in to view it.

I do get what you are saying on what he 'confessed' he hated categories, and did not do it himself.. so he says.. but, he knew he was a Street Photographer -- inside--

Maybe this was his way of being <Humble>? "I no photographer... but thanks for liking my work".
 
Wikipedia to the rescue:
"Street photography is an art photography that features the human condition within public places and does not necessitate the presence of a street or even the urban environment. "
Street photography on Wikipedia
So, it has nothing to do with the street.

Sorry, but any idiot can post on wikipedia.
Take most of it with a pinch of salt.

It has to be "covert".
 
Does it really have to be covert? Why?

It isnt, of course it isnt.
There is even a Wikipedian facebook group http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Facebook

Wikipedia is a wiki, meaning that anyone can edit any unprotected page and improve articles immediately for all readers. You do not need to register to do this. Anyone who has edited is known as a "Wikipedian"

There are multiple language versions of the street photography wiki and a couple of them are very good but the English one always fares badly. For example the photos that are inserted into the page are often times photographers using the wiki to promote themselves as credible because their photo is in the wiki and so they have to be continuously removed and replaced with photographs that are regarded as equitable to the community. The Stieglitz photo for example and also because it is in the public domain and has no copyright issue to deal with.
But wiki is assaulted all the time with hit and run attacks by coward trolls and some with a taste for the obscene and malicious. There are wiki members that monitor just these. Its a tiresome pastime.

I pointed out earlier the sentence in the street photography wiki ...but here is a bit more of it and it gets worse.

After the invention of the candid camera, candid photography in public places became an issue of discussion. Street photographers create fine art photography (including street portraits) by capturing people in public places, often with a focus on emotions displayed by people in public, as in public display of affection between lovers or a parent caring for his or her children, thereby also recording people's history from an emotional point of view.

Of course Candid Camera is a television program and nothing to do with anything but there are no citations and the relevancy let alone the facts are absent. It a joke of a page now and yet some like it and think it is relevant and an explanation.

The parts I wrote are all still there and much from some other authors too, there are hidden reasons in the definition that I gave it so that it would be more inclusive. It has a strong historical component as well and in a prior version the author had confused documentary and street together and it was fixed but it has happened again ...

Social documentary photographers operate in public places documenting people and their behavior in public places for recording people's history and other purposes. Services like Google Street View also record the public place at a massive scale. Photojournalists work in public places, capturing newsworthy events, which may include people and private property visible from public places.

The page does not even meet the wiki requirement and is a breach of wiki policy, I'm surprised there isnt a policy to delete the whole page. I took it on back when it had been over run by Leica owners and it had become an advertisment for Leica.

I've given up on it, its an idiotic thing and is so corrupted now. Some like it but my supermarket sells SPAM and tinned spaghetti (and some like that too).

Street is in a state of confusion and populated by a lot of aggressive and angry photographers, a definition for all is not possible and yet a single definition can be written that satisfies all. That definition is my property and not for abuse here. As everyone has seen in this thread some even object to its name or that it even has one or that it is even defined 😱.

Its insane and yet some of us have no trouble understanding it and proven by our own photographs. Fortunately too RFF has a high incidence of skilled street photographers and some of them even in this thread ....thank goodness for them. In fact Ko.Fe, I'm surprised at you with the abundant resource right here on RFF ...you should already be able to define it yourself by the examples that count for some of the best on the internet and every one of them worth a thousand words ...if only you read them.
 
So if you can't really define it then how useful can it be to try? I think you see exactly why Winogrand and Adams thought trying to define photographers/photographs with categories like Street Photography is silly.

There is no confusion to the people actually creating. They just go out and create. Those trying to label it seem to be a bit confused.
 
OK... What I said was that "in his own head" he might have thought of his work as Street Photography... even though he did not like categories at all..he was certainly aware of where his work had standing in the general overall category of Street Photography.

When I am out on the Street, I am taking what interests me, and as I just think about stuff, at those times, I think about that my work will be considered Street Photography. As we all have... even if we hate categories...(I'm Okay with that)

a little OT.. but, in principle on thinking where your work stands as far as categories the "Public" acknowledges.
Even HCB finely got it, although he called he work "surrealizm" in many cases... he could not "SELL" that to the paying photojournalism world.. Capa told him that he would need to call his work "Photojournalism" to make a living at it.
Even though HCB did categorize his work... he still didn't like some categories, because he felt it did not represent his style..

I can't imagine that Gary W <Never> thought of his work as 'Street Photography'...he never spoke of it... but, that doesn't mean he never thought about it as a part of his style.
He never admitted it in public discussions. But it is just human nature to think about where your work fits in the overall scheme of things..He may not have like it, or even accept it publicly, BUT... us humans need to have some kind of organizational system in place just to communicate what we showing others... in large exhibitions where there is a PR angle to draw the right spectators in to view it.

I do get what you are saying on what he 'confessed' he hated categories, and did not do it himself.. so he says.. but, he knew he was a Street Photographer -- inside--

Maybe this was his way of being <Humble>? "I no photographer... but thanks for liking my work".

I'll repost this because you must have missed it. In his own words....
about 45 seconds in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RM9KcYEYXs
 
So a good debate is not what a forum should be about? So everyone should agree with you? Not only do I disagree with categories, others here do and Adams and Winogrand also did and many other photographers also disagree.

If you create or judge work already created to whether it is fitting into A or B then you are restricting your vision and/or the way you evaluate a piece. Adams took exception to categorizing and called it IIRC a concentration camp for the spirit. and he is right. Just create. Don't worry if it is A or B there are plenty of folks around to worry about those things and will find a category to put the work into.

The bigger question is why do you think a term like Street Photography or any other label is so important? Why can't it just be a great photograph period? Is a great shot taken in the moment in an urban environment any less or more a great photograph than a great shot of nature in all it's glory or an amazing portrait that when you look at it you see right to the soul and the essence of the sitter?
 
Back
Top Bottom