I'm making a big decision and I need some help from veterans

[FrankS]

It's just one kind of film or another. Not a decision with dire consequences. You can always change your mind.

I'm mainly B+W, but as others have said, it's a good idea to have a small camera with colour film tucked into a bag or pocket for when you stumble upon an image that is about the colour, like Bill's blue hydrant.

 

[NIKON KIU]

I'm making a big decision and I need some help from veterans

I thought you are selling all your Leicas and buying Nikon 😀


But seriously,
I am no good with B&W...interesting question.

kiu

 

[noimmunity]

Wasn't it a question about vision training?

Wasn't it a question about vision training?

I understand the OP's question as a matter of practical training. How to train myself to treat colour as a distraction from the real game of shadow and light?

It's too bad nobody makes a pair of glasses that could render vision in mono. As a training device, may I recommend the humble digital P&S with a decent screen, preferably with live histogram. Before even going and taking pictures, walk around for a couple of weeks with the camera on all the time in mono mode, taking note of what you see. Trying to see as much as possible through the camera's idea of the world, letting go as much as possible of the lure of colour, until you begin to get a sense of the way colour is a distraction.

On a philosophical note: When Buddhists say "form is emptiness" 色即是空 the Chinese character se 色 that is translated into English as "form" is actually the character that in other contexts normally means "colour". (Technically speaking, the correct way to interpret the text would be to refer to the Sanskrit original, but I suggest the Chinese translation of the Sanskrit contains an interesting inspiration for the OP). Another example, from Chinese: To be sexually predatorial and avaricious is also called "loving color" [好色] (rather than loving heart). So perhaps part of the training to see in B+W involves seeing the emptiness of colour/form.

2 centimes...

 

[jonmanjiro]

On a philosophical note: When Buddhists say "form is emptiness" 色即是空 the Chinese character se 色 that is translated into English as "form" is actually the character that in other contexts normally means "colour". (Technically speaking, the correct way to interpret the text would be to refer to the Sanskrit original, but I suggest the Chinese translation of the Sanskrit contains an interesting inspiration for the OP). Another example, from Chinese: To be sexually predatorial and avaricious is also called "loving color" [好色] (rather than loving heart). So perhaps part of the training to see in B+W involves seeing the emptiness of colour/form.

Thanks for the philosophical note, Jon. I'd never given it a second thought until now, but the character for colour has a similar meaning in Japanese as well. For example 色男 (literally "colour man") means ladies man, lady-killer, lover boy, stud etc. and 色っぽい (literally "color-like") means sexy, glamorous, alluring etc.

色即是空、空即是色
Every form in reality is empty, and emptiness is the true form.

 

[sepiareverb]

Why not shoot digital and desaturate everything before you look at it- then if you decide later that you want to shoot in color you can magically have all your old images in color too.

An odd "dilemma" it seems. Are you required to shoot color and trying to be a maverick?

 

[maddoc]

In my opinion, the choice of film - BW or color - is more a matter of different interpretation of the subject being photographed. If you decide to only shoot BW, you are going to interpret in a more abstract and graphic way. While I like this level of abstraction very much, sometimes I feel the need to see "in colors" and interpret the subject in this - less abstract - way. So while maybe 70 % or more of my photography is in BW, I sometimes feel the need to switch to color just to train myself seing (and interpreting) in a different way.

Cheers,

Gabor

 

[amateriat]

It's too bad nobody makes a pair of glasses that could render vision in mono. As a training device, may I recommend the humble digital P&S with a decent screen, preferably with live histogram.

Interestingly enough, the EVF on my Olympus C-8080 allows me to do just this: see what I'm shooting in "living black-and-white", albeit in slightly-less-than-real-time, which can screw with my sense of timing at times. 😡

But, when I load up my cameras with b/w film, I'm thinking in black-and-white, which is more than adequate. Can't tell you how I manage it, but I've been doing it for some years now. A Zen thing? Maybe, I don't claim to know, but I know that I look past color when I'm working with b/w film, and things seem to fall in place most of the time. I do think it helps to work just with black-and-white for a while, and I mean really "work" with it, technically and well beyond.

On a philosophical note: When Buddhists say "form is emptiness" 色即是空 the Chinese character se 色 that is translated into English as "form" is actually the character that in other contexts normally means "colour". (Technically speaking, the correct way to interpret the text would be to refer to the Sanskrit original, but I suggest the Chinese translation of the Sanskrit contains an interesting inspiration for the OP). Another example, from Chinese: To be sexually predatorial and avaricious is also called "loving color" [好色] (rather than loving heart). So perhaps part of the training to see in B+W involves seeing the emptiness of colour/form.

Hmm...I might want to talk so galfriend about this one. Quite fascinating. 🙂


- Barrett

 

[noimmunity]

Colour Wolves

Colour Wolves

Thanks for the philosophical note, Jon. I'd never given it a second thought until now, but the character for colour has a similar meaning in Japanese as well. For example 色男 (literally "colour man") means ladies man, lady-killer, lover boy, stud etc. and 色っぽい (literally "color-like") means sexy, glamorous, alluring etc.

色即是空、空即是色
Every form in reality is empty, and emptiness is the true form.

No suprise about the similarity between Chinese and Japanese, eh?! 日本語と中国語の間に歴史的な繋がりが存在していて，今でも似てるところがまだ色々ありますよね！

That English translation above is just a little too florid for my taste. The grammatical structure is quite simple: a parallel equation between two terms A and B, which are reversible. "A is immediately B; B is immediately A." I:ll admit the above translation has a certain ring to it. But I prefer a translation that reflects the minimalism of the original.

Guys who are sexually predatorial are known as "colour wolves" 色狼 . I always have the suspicion that some kind of "colour wolfing" or prowling around for leery shots accounts for 80-90% of casual photography. Photographers like Mapplethorpe who turned this around are really brilliant.

Maybe we should give the Black and White acolytes a different name? Truth Wolves?

 

[Bob Michaels]

I'm seriously thinking about shooting B&W only (film).

Of course you might say do as you like and what you feel is right, but I'm not a very emotional person and I need reasons and good examples to make a major decision. <snip>

Yes, I will say "do as you like". You are trying to make an objective decision when everything involved is subjective. In fact, no decision is necessary.

Every time you go out, shoot what you feel like at that time. That is what I do. Now it happens that 298 out of the last 300 rolls have been Neopan 400 (a b&w film) but there never was an point where I decided I was going to be a b&w photographer.

Realize this is not an irreversible decision. After shooting b&w for years, I did a six month long project in 2005 exclusively in MF chrome. Then I went back to working in b&w almost exclusively again.

Enjoy photography. Don't make everything too complex. Just do what you want to do at that moment.

And always remember that, no matter what all the on line folks say, the truly correct answer to 99.9% of all photo related questions is "it depends".

 

[John Rountree]

I cannot take credit for this quote and I don't know who to attribute it to: "When I want to show you something I shoot color, but when I want to tell you something I use black and white." For me, black and white has a gravitas that color simply can't match. Also, it is much easier to ruin a picture with color, because if you can't control all the colors in a photograph there is always the potential for the involuntary emotional reaction that colors evoke to be wrong for the image.

 

[jonmanjiro]

No suprise about the similarity between Chinese and Japanese, eh?! 日本語と中国語の間に歴史的な繋がりが存在していて，今でも似てるところがまだ色々ありますよね！

正是！

That English translation above is just a little too florid for my taste.

Agreed. A little too flowery for an expression from Buddhism. It came from the dictionary I have installed on my PC.

Maybe we should give the Black and White acolytes a different name? Truth Wolves?

Well, its certainly catchier than Truth Men! 🙂

 

[jan normandale]

Nh3 .. "This is a big decision because I severely limit my chances of making any money from photography, but that was not why i started photography... As of the foreseeable future I'm going to concentrate only on b&w (and of course film only). I actually feel really good about this decision because now I know exactly what I want and also the means that I will go after it."

To embark on a career by defining oneself as a b&w photographer or colour photographer and not just photographer could also be seen as limiting and even gimmicky.

Something to think about.

 

[Roger Hicks]

It looks increasingly as if there may be basic perceptual differences here. Some people immediately 'get it' and others don't.

A surprising amount of our perception is determined by our upbringing, and there are even genetic physiological differences in a number of senses, including vision. Then there's the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis that language determines the way you think (which I find inherently more likely than Chomsky).

In other words, NH3 may already have learned all that is possible about this choice, so that the only possibility now is indeed to try it and see, as others have suggested.

Cheers,

R.