redisburning
Well-known
um, possession. obviously.
look, Im all for the argument that it's really sleezy how things work these days in regards to artist/agency compensation but it's not like she's around to miss all that money.
Margu
Established
Its an interesting documentary but it fails to explain whats the reason for VM's popularity.
CliveC
Well-known
I think her story is probably half of it. Essentially Mary Poppins with a camera, but hid her talents and was undiscovered after her death.
Had somebody discovered her pictures 10 years ago while she was living, I don't think she would have had half the attention.
Then again, the photos are damn good as well.
Ruhayat
Well-known
Yes. For example, van Gogh. Still. Wouldn't leave such a sour taste if the people involved didn't try so hard to promote themselves as if they're doing it for altruistic reasons. I reiterate: still waiting on that Maier Foundation running off profits made from the Vivian Maier Brandname.
I think from the video the only collector who has some sense of decency is the guy who said he would never sell any of them, doesn't appear to want to profit from them, and plans to simply give away some of the prints in his possession to the public. My thoughts are encapsulated by the retired photographer, who is also uneasy with how it has been panning out.
Ruhayat
Well-known
To also be blunt, I wouldn't mind it so much if the people involved would just come out and say straight off that they intend to profit from the dead woman. Instead they um and ahh and I have read more than one interview where they try hard to portray themselves as being some kind of a saint and not trying to be a scumbag. I think they themselves know it, too, which is why one of the collectors had to volunteer that line.
I detect shiftiness in many of the capitalist interviewees. I wonder why.
ampguy
Veteran
I think it's the mystery
I think it's the mystery
surrounding her life, and the story of the acquisition of the photos.
I don't think the documentary would have been nearly as interesting or as popular if it simply concentrated on the photographs, and not the person and the story.
Note the title, It's not about VM taking self portraits, the title is asking who took her photos [literally, the tangible boxes of film rolls and negatives, IMHO], while she was living.
I think it's the mystery
surrounding her life, and the story of the acquisition of the photos.
I don't think the documentary would have been nearly as interesting or as popular if it simply concentrated on the photographs, and not the person and the story.
Note the title, It's not about VM taking self portraits, the title is asking who took her photos [literally, the tangible boxes of film rolls and negatives, IMHO], while she was living.
mfogiel
Veteran
The role of the three owners, is that akin to art dealers. There are art dealers, who own sizable collection of masterpieces, and perhaps one day, they will resell them with a sizable profit. Nobody finds anything strange in that. If there should be a point here, then it is , that if you actually ARE GLAD to see her photos in the books and exhibitions, then you should also be grateful to the guys owning her photos, for promoting them.
NazgulKing
Established
To also be blunt, I wouldn't mind it so much if the people involved would just come out and say straight off that they intend to profit from the dead woman. Instead they um and ahh and I have read more than one interview where they try hard to portray themselves as being some kind of a saint and not trying to be a scumbag. I think they themselves know it, too, which is why one of the collectors had to volunteer that line.
I detect shiftiness in many of the capitalist interviewees. I wonder why.
So what? You expect people to feel guilty about this? You yourself profit off other people, why should you expect others not to do so? Hypocrisy much? Getting high and holy and sanctimonious about this is a pointless exercise.
Ruhayat
Well-known
Ron Slattery
Newbie
One of the owners of Vivian Maier work - is not making prints from negatives.
(Hey! That's me)
(Hey! That's me)
Ruhayat
Well-known
Heyyyy. Yeah, man, you were the one I mentioned, who in in the video said you're not selling off what you have, didn't seem to want to profit from the works, and was planning to give away some back to the public even. That must take a fair bit of courage. You seem to genuinely appreciate her works, too. Way to go! Respect!
ampguy
Veteran
Are there any cats in those that you have??
Ron Slattery
Newbie
peter_n
Veteran
Look at her pictures.
dadecasa
Newbie
This is where is all started, at least the John Maloof side.
If you watch the documentary carefully you can even see a couple of seconds of HCSP group on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157622552378986/
If you watch the documentary carefully you can even see a couple of seconds of HCSP group on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/groups/onthestreet/discuss/72157622552378986/
ampguy
Veteran
Would like to see them
Would like to see them
Curious, how are you documenting/storing the images you have, that tracks dates, subject, location, etc.?
I have to admit, what you wrote 31 months ago, creeped me out then, and still does now. But I realize none of you fully realized what you had at the time as well.
Did you ever consider that if you and John became BFFs again, it could be a profitable friendship and give you leverage with the other owners, or has that ship sailed?
re: this out of context, flickr internet chatter:
"Little did we know that Vivian Maier was very much alive. "
Posted 31 months ago.
Would like to see them
Curious, how are you documenting/storing the images you have, that tracks dates, subject, location, etc.?
I have to admit, what you wrote 31 months ago, creeped me out then, and still does now. But I realize none of you fully realized what you had at the time as well.
Did you ever consider that if you and John became BFFs again, it could be a profitable friendship and give you leverage with the other owners, or has that ship sailed?
re: this out of context, flickr internet chatter:
"Little did we know that Vivian Maier was very much alive. "
Posted 31 months ago.
Ron Slattery
Newbie
I don't think I would have even jumped into that Flickr thread - had I not spoken to a friend who is gallery owner here in Chicago. I stopped in to say hi and preview a show. The subject of Vivian Maier came up and we discussed what I owned. At one point he said "I see you're not being mentioned anywhere". Told him I really didn't care, let it be the John Maloof Three Ring Circus. He smiled and said "Provenance is everything".
Hello. I jumped in.
Regarding the quote
"Little did we know that Vivian Maier was very much alive. "
Well, it was the truth. She was. Very much so.
I think the fact that an artist can lose a life's work at a storage auction - strikes a chord with fellow photographers. That's a ton of work, love and passion - scattered to the wind. Fellow photographers understand what it takes to produce that kind of work. Art is personal. Vivian Maier was a dedicated, talented photographer who created an amazing body of work. That work was sold off at a storage auction while she was still alive. How can you not feel something about that - particularly if you are an artist as well.
Had Roger Gunderson at RPN Sales thrown out the photos and negatives (as many auction houses did at that time) - we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Vivian had 5 lockers in one storage facility and 2 in a totally different storage facility - on the other side of town. She lost the first 5 while alive. According to the "official" Vivian Maier website, the 2 additional lockers were given to John Maloof by the caretakers of her estate. This was long after the Vivian Maier blogspot site went live. These 2 lockers were given to him after Vivian had passed away.
Hello. I jumped in.
Regarding the quote
"Little did we know that Vivian Maier was very much alive. "
Well, it was the truth. She was. Very much so.
I think the fact that an artist can lose a life's work at a storage auction - strikes a chord with fellow photographers. That's a ton of work, love and passion - scattered to the wind. Fellow photographers understand what it takes to produce that kind of work. Art is personal. Vivian Maier was a dedicated, talented photographer who created an amazing body of work. That work was sold off at a storage auction while she was still alive. How can you not feel something about that - particularly if you are an artist as well.
Had Roger Gunderson at RPN Sales thrown out the photos and negatives (as many auction houses did at that time) - we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Vivian had 5 lockers in one storage facility and 2 in a totally different storage facility - on the other side of town. She lost the first 5 while alive. According to the "official" Vivian Maier website, the 2 additional lockers were given to John Maloof by the caretakers of her estate. This was long after the Vivian Maier blogspot site went live. These 2 lockers were given to him after Vivian had passed away.
ampguy
Veteran
Thanks Ron
Thanks Ron
To me, and maybe it's because I'm no artist, is the back story to this is fascinating. Almost equally to the quantity and quality of the images, and unanswered mysteries of VM.
I think she may have had a weekend friend, which explains why she came back from weekends with different stuff, and was secretive about it. Perhaps that friend has more photos or the best ones, and perhaps has the unfound will and owns it all
Agree with you that RPN sales should get credit. Makes one wonder how many other artists life works, and great works, have just been dumped.
Thanks Ron
To me, and maybe it's because I'm no artist, is the back story to this is fascinating. Almost equally to the quantity and quality of the images, and unanswered mysteries of VM.
I think she may have had a weekend friend, which explains why she came back from weekends with different stuff, and was secretive about it. Perhaps that friend has more photos or the best ones, and perhaps has the unfound will and owns it all
Agree with you that RPN sales should get credit. Makes one wonder how many other artists life works, and great works, have just been dumped.
Ruhayat
Well-known
I've been interested in Vivian Maier solely for her work since 2011. But the more I read about her story, the more uneasy I became. To the extent that personally I would NOT buy any of her books, prints or any other merchandise (yes, I prefer to call them merchandising not artwork, but not because I don't consider Ms Maier an artist). And I have been telling my friends to do the same.
Something is just not quite right about the whole affair. This video only brings to light more of them. For example, what kind of art dealer chooses to meet in abandoned warehouses, brings heavies along, and conducts transactions during which they had a feeling of fearing for their safety?
Plus, the way I see it, there remains a huge question mark over the legality of the matter.
For one, when you buy a negative, you can only sell back that negative itself for a profit. Unless the artist had given you express consent, you cannot make derivative works and then sell them for a profit! I thought this was basic copyright law - if I buy a CD, I don't own the copyright of the music contained on it, I only own the CD. I can't make copies of that music and then sell that on, I can only sell the CD itself.
We very well know that here the artist or her heirs never consented to the copyright of her works to be transferred to total strangers. But as one legal expert observed, it remains to be seen whether the contract Vivian signed with the storage company also contains wording that transfers ALL her copyright to that company in the event of non-payment.
Something is just not quite right about the whole affair. This video only brings to light more of them. For example, what kind of art dealer chooses to meet in abandoned warehouses, brings heavies along, and conducts transactions during which they had a feeling of fearing for their safety?
Plus, the way I see it, there remains a huge question mark over the legality of the matter.
For one, when you buy a negative, you can only sell back that negative itself for a profit. Unless the artist had given you express consent, you cannot make derivative works and then sell them for a profit! I thought this was basic copyright law - if I buy a CD, I don't own the copyright of the music contained on it, I only own the CD. I can't make copies of that music and then sell that on, I can only sell the CD itself.
We very well know that here the artist or her heirs never consented to the copyright of her works to be transferred to total strangers. But as one legal expert observed, it remains to be seen whether the contract Vivian signed with the storage company also contains wording that transfers ALL her copyright to that company in the event of non-payment.
Ruhayat
Well-known
It's like, I am a recluse who is fiercely protective of my privacy and stuff I work on. I am also a hoarder, so I open up a Flickr account and store ALL the photos I take, not to share it with people but because it's a personal storage space I have access to no matter where I am staying. I do my best to hide my account and don't tell a single soul about it. One day I get struck by illness and my Flickr account gets abandoned. And then, while I am lying in bed, someone stumbles across my Flickr account, sees the hoard, sees that the account has been dormant, and then, without my consent, downloads my photos, makes books and prints from them, and then sells those off.
Man. I would be pissed if I found out.
Man. I would be pissed if I found out.