beedubs
Member
I've been using a Plustek 8200i Ai to scan my 35mm negs but the holder it comes with does not allow me to include black borders in my scans.
It doesn't even allow the full width to be scanned (height is fine), I have to slide the neg strip right or left and pick which edge to show more of.
What scanners allow borders to be included like this example?
barrymansfieldphoto.tumblr.com/image/100731255433
Thanks!
It doesn't even allow the full width to be scanned (height is fine), I have to slide the neg strip right or left and pick which edge to show more of.
What scanners allow borders to be included like this example?
barrymansfieldphoto.tumblr.com/image/100731255433
Thanks!
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Very few scanners include openings large enough to capture the rebate portion of the film. I can capture it if I use the Nikon SuperCoolscan 9000 with the ANR glass film carrier as it has no film channels.
Most people add a border that simulates the rebate instead.
G
Most people add a border that simulates the rebate instead.
G
ruby.monkey
Veteran
Any flatbed with suitably modified holders (or 35mm digitaliza).
Swift1
Veteran
Depending on what camera I've used and how I put the film in the holder, my V500 stock 35mm holder will allow a border.
Like this,
Like this,
V-12
Well-known
I know its a nice idea to do it at the scanning stage, but for a bit of flexibility I would recommend using Silver Efex Pro in post processing. Lots of styles and subtle variations are available and there is no chance of repeating exactly the same border (especially if you have the rough edge as per your illustration) just like the small variations you would get in the darkroom.
V
V
peterm1
Veteran
I do not scan but occasionally when the mood takes me I add a border in digital post processing. I use Corel Paintshop Pro (PSP) which has an option under the "image" menu to add borders and or frames (simialr but different concepts). PSP comes with a variety of pre-made frames few of which are any good but it is an easy matter to add new ones to the correct folder in the PSP program directory. I managed to download some such frames from the internet which look like a scanned film border and occasionally will cheat and use one of these.
Another option if you do not use PSP is a free piece of software called Photoscape which also has a frame adding tool. Similarly you can hack this by going to the program directory and adding a digital file of the relevant border if you do not like the ones that came with it. This program does have some borders that look like 35mm edges but I have not used it for and cannot recall how well they look.
Example here:
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Photoscape-Batch-Editor
Additional borders can be downloaded for this program (Google search)
http://tinyurl.com/njnwswl
Another option if you do not use PSP is a free piece of software called Photoscape which also has a frame adding tool. Similarly you can hack this by going to the program directory and adding a digital file of the relevant border if you do not like the ones that came with it. This program does have some borders that look like 35mm edges but I have not used it for and cannot recall how well they look.
Example here:
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Photoscape-Batch-Editor
Additional borders can be downloaded for this program (Google search)
http://tinyurl.com/njnwswl
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Is that Henri I hear turning in his grave?
newsgrunt
Well-known
I've filed down my Epson v700 holders but find it simpler to scan the the negs on the glass (emulsion down) under a piece of AN glass. Hafta flip the neg in post but you do get more rebate than you know what to do with 
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Yeah, and liquid smoke is nearly as good as proper cold-smoking...
On the one hand, all's fair in love, war and art. On the other, there's something inherently unpleasant about blatant fakery.
BUY AN ENLARGER!
Cheers,
R.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
An enlarger isn't going yo do you a lot of good if you're scanning film.
When I add a black border around my photos, I'm not trying to fake anything. I'm just finishing the edges to present the photo nicely. I don't attemt to simulate any particular film or hold to a particular film format proportion.
If I want to scan film and include the rebate, I use a flatbed scanner with a specially modified film carrier or the ANR glass carrier in my Super Coolscan 9000.
G
When I add a black border around my photos, I'm not trying to fake anything. I'm just finishing the edges to present the photo nicely. I don't attemt to simulate any particular film or hold to a particular film format proportion.
If I want to scan film and include the rebate, I use a flatbed scanner with a specially modified film carrier or the ANR glass carrier in my Super Coolscan 9000.
G
Mark C
Well-known
An enlarger isn't going yo do you a lot of good if you're scanning film.
When I add a black border around my photos, I'm not trying to fake anything. I'm just finishing the edges to present the photo nicely. I don't attemt to simulate any particular film or hold to a particular film format proportion.
If I want to scan film and include the rebate, I use a flatbed scanner with a specially modified film carrier or the ANR glass carrier in my Super Coolscan 9000.
G
I think the fakery comes in when you are using varied rough black borders to simulate the full frame look. Obviously that is a personal preference and decision, but it does strike me as fakery too.
I cut out the borders on my scanner holders the same as I do on my negative carriers. I hate the machine making decisions about how much of my negative I can show, but that is obviously not new with scanning.
daveleo
what?
Guys ..... "fakery" ?
There's something in photography that is NOT "fakery" ???
There's something in photography that is NOT "fakery" ???
Pablito
coco frío
It's only fakery if someone finds out.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
It's fakery when your INTENT is to say "this is the full frame of my capture with no cropping or editing" by using a simulated film rebate. The look has nothing to do with it, that's just a rendering aesthetic; the intent is a lie if the image framed by the surround is not the full frame recorded on the film.
I used to have a mask overlay that enabled me to add a simulated film rebate when printing 5x7.5 inch prints in the darkroom. You see, I was never concerned with the foolish notion that every photo must be perfectly framed and perfectly captured in its entirety on the film. Given the fact that the VAST majority of reflex viewfinders are far from 100% coverage, and rangefinder/optical tunnel viewfinders are far worse on accuracy than that, the notion of getting exactly what you intend on film right to the corners is more accident than intent. Hogging out my film carriers to capture everything including the rebate, for me, was simply a way to get everything that was captured since the actual image on film does drift a bit from the 24x36mm standard due to focal length: wide lenses create slightly larger negative area, long lenses slightly smaller.
Um, photofinishing printers and slide mounts have always introduced an element of variability into what you can get out of a film capture.
The machines are always influencing your content anyway. I shoot loose and work with the standard carrier openings so I can obtain exactly what my intent was through cropping. I can't hog out the negative carriers for my film scanners without destroying them, not to mention that the scanning element is only so large anyway, and that the software driving the scanner limits how many pixels it can retrieve off the film anyway. I can do that with the flatbed scanners, which are lower resolution and nowhere near as precise as the film scanners, or I can scan film using a larger format scanner to capture all the rebate. But these sorts of manipulations are clumsy.
To me, the whole notion of image borders once in the digital space is purely a matter of aesthetics. A simple image border finishes the image rendering. I find hard lines at edges distracting, so I soften the edge with a blurred black surround. For instance:
The border is purely something intended to finish the edges of the image in a pleasing way as this image is no natural film format proportion.
G
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Godfrey,
Perfectly summarized, and as I said, all's fair in love, war and art. Even so, it strikes me as being unfaithful to your medium to use simulated film rebates. Pin-lines, fine. It's just the irregular borders that strike me as being in some way dishonest. Even then, I couldn't quickly or easily explain why.
As for "An enlarger isn't going you do you a lot of good if you're scanning film," well, it might. You wouldn't have to go on faking it with a computer: you could just use the enlarger instead.
Cheers,
R.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
V-12
Well-known
And how exactly does your enlarger equate to 'reality' when you put in a negative with an edited composition and then choose a grade of paper that represents your opinion of what the scene should look like in order to produce a print that is purely contrived and manipulated? Photography is not reality. It is your opinion that is unpleasant considering the OP is trying to find a solution in a different workflow to your idea of perfection. Either grow up or retire.
V
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, at least I have the alternative, and I think I've tried the former. You're presumably too young to retire but you've certainly got plenty of time (or at least need) to grow up.
Google "sense of humour". Or try the ignore list. I can recommend it -- I've just added you to it.
Afterthought: can anyone provide a good reference for an alleged Mark Twain quote: "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years." It's so widely disputed/misreported that I gave up, but it seems apposite.
Cheers,
R.
__jc
Well-known
I use film. When practicable, I scan the film so that the border rebates show. I do this by cutting the cardboard masks that came with my Nikon Coolscan 9000 so that the holes where the film shows are slightly larger than standard.
I also find it lame when digital users use fake film borders. If digital is your medium of choice, have it look like digital, not pretending to be something else.
But, hey, whatever floats yer boat.
I also find it lame when digital users use fake film borders. If digital is your medium of choice, have it look like digital, not pretending to be something else.
But, hey, whatever floats yer boat.
vbsoto
Established
For my 35 mm film scans I use the film border in the app called Flare. For my digital camera pics I use a black key line either at time of print or added at the final edit. I only use film type borders for my actual film images which I rarely crop.