Increasing demand at professional labs: Detailed Numbers

[HHPhoto]

Hi,

disclaimer first: This posting is not adressed to all the "doom and gloom" prayers here. They will be hurt by the content , and therefore should stop reading immediately at this point .

This posting is just a bit more detailed information and facts for all of those here on rff who really shoot film and want a realistic picture of the situation on the market.
Found this today on Jobo facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/JOBOanalog/

Detailed business/demand numbers and statistics of professional lab Sreda in Moscow:
https://sreda-photo.livejournal.com/393188.html

This situation is not unique for a professional lab. Lots of lab owners have reported similar developments at their labs recently. E.g. NationPhoto (Paris) has also seen such strong demand increases: At Photokina they said that meanwhile they process about 1,000 rolls a day (!) at their two lab locations in Paris. The Darkroom in the U.S. has explained that they get up to 500 film packages a day (and one customer package has mostly several films in it - often more then ten - because shipping costs are then the lowest per film). So they also process a 4-digit number of films every day.

Cheers, Jan

 

[jsrockit]

I'm going start to believe you... when I see major new mainstream roll film cameras being offered. That would truly be a revival. In the meantime, this uptick is good for photography in general. More options is always good.

 

[Takkun]

Waiting on this too. I was glad to hear Leica coming out with new film bodies (though I couldn’t hope to afford one for what they are), happy to hear reports that the F6 is still sporadically produced.

I’m not holding my breath too hard though for the near future. Much like it was discussed in a thread I started last year about wanting a good batch scanner like the old coolscans, I think there’s just way too much out there on the used market for it to make financial sense for the big guys just yet. Leica gets away with a $4k film camera because people will pay at least half that for a 40 year old camera.


Then again, Nikon blew everyone away with the Df. So who knows.

 

[Huss]

Waiting on this too. I was glad to hear Leica coming out with new film bodies.

Leica is coming out with new film bodies??? Or do you mean they are still selling film cameras?

Then again, Nikon blew everyone away with the Df.

Really? Me and many others were extremely disappointed with the DF as it was such a half baked effort. Essentially a reskinned D600 with a D4 sensor and no video.

 

[jsrockit]

Really? Me and many others were extremely disappointed with the DF as it was such a half baked effort. Essentially a reskinned D600 with a D4 sensor and no video.

While I was initially disappointed because it wasn't a digital FM2, once I used it I really enjoyed it. It was light and small (for a FF DSLR), had classic controls, and the fact that it didn't have a huge grip or video was, to me, a great thing. The only thing that I could honesty say I didn't like was that it had the D610 AF and not the D750 AF.

 

[Timmyjoe]

While I was initially disappointed because it wasn't a digital FM2, once I used it I really enjoyed it. It was light and small (for a FF DSLR), had classic controls, and the fact that it didn't have a huge grip or video was, to me, a great thing. The only thing that I could honesty say I didn't like was that it had the D610 AF and not the D750 AF.

In total agreement with you on this, love the Df and find it to be a great "in between" camera; a bridge between film/digital.

Also really loving the Ektachrome revival and it's causing me to shoot my Nikon S2 and Leica M film bodies a lot more. Still like the convenience of digital, but having a color slide film again, that renders colors as I see them (Fuji never worked for me) is making using my old film bodies a whole lot of fun.

Jan, have you talked with the folks at Dwayne's in Parsons Kansas, they've been doing my Ektachrome and doing a very fine job of it. Would love to know if their numbers are up as well. We need these labs to stay in business.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Takkun]

Leica is coming out with new film bodies??? Or do you mean they are still selling film cameras?




Really? Me and many others were extremely disappointed with the DF as it was such a half baked effort. Essentially a reskinned D600 with a D4 sensor and no video.

1. Yep. MP and M-A. former's been out for a while now, latter is relatively new.

2. When I said "blew everyone away" I suppose I meant as a camera it came as a surprise to the industry, rather than users' impressions. I assisted for a professor that used one and while I didn't have a whole lot of experience with it, liked it in concept: more physical controls, more lens compatibility, selectively stripped down features. A camera for someone whom the D4 and video was overkill but an alternative to the D800 (was that the second-tier FX at the time? I don't keep track)

Reason I brought it up was that it was a specific niche product that didn't fit neatly into existing market categories. The F6 was a similar 'last hurrah' of high-end film cameras, too: full support for newer lenses, built in data back, better AF and generally an upgrade from the F5/F100, but still pared down from the digital equivalent.
I'd guess any new film cameras would be similar. If I'm shooting film, I don't need 8fps motor drive and vice versa, or the latest 80 or whatever point AF. But I might still want AF and a winder, and little things like multi-metering and an interval timer. Features that get dropped or shoved deep into menus on lower-tier cameras.

It's a shame Contax went under and Olympus dropped their OM line—AF and digital left them behind, but they'd have a great target market right about now.


Re: Ektachrome, I stumbled into my local shop a few days after it dropped and picked up some of the first rolls for sale around here last summer. I haven't gotten around to shooting them yet, but as soon as the weather dries out...

 

[zuiko85]

I’m thinking that this good news varies a great deal by location. For some of us who still use film mail order has proved to be the barrier hard to overcome. Not just financially but I miss face to face contact with labs when there is a problem. We have not had a local C-41 processor since Costco discontinuing theirs about 8 years ago. B&W is no problem, been doing that for 50 years. But, at 70, I don’t want to start and learn home C-41. So, just lazy I guess.

 

[ptpdprinter]

Why is mail order a barrier hard to overcome?

 

[Ambro51]

I just splurged on a dozed E6 mailers BH/ Dwayne’s for $11 each. Postage on my end usps $3. Makes lab hunting obsolete. I just want development only.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Why is mail order a barrier hard to overcome?

Risk of loss. No face to face customer service. A faceless entity to complain to when the new guy at the lab botches the chemistry. A faceless entity to complain to when the rollers on the machine print stains on the film. There's other hurdles. A lot of photographers thrive on control. The USPS does not fill one with the most confidence in this regard.
Phil Forrest

 

[Skiff]

B&W is no problem, been doing that for 50 years. But, at 70, I don’t want to start and learn home C-41. So, just lazy I guess.

C41 and E6 at home is even easier than BW, because these processes are standardised. No problem to get perfect quality (even better compared to prof. labs), especially with a JOBO processor. It's even significantly cheaper doing color at home, and faster, too.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

Be not afraid!

Be not afraid!

I used Kodak and later Qualex mail order processing for my Kodachrome and Ektachrome films.
In dozens of orders not a single roll was ever lost in the mail or botched by the lab.

Chris

 

[Skiff]

I used Kodak and later Qualex mail order processing for my Kodachrome and Ektachrome films.
In dozens of orders not a single roll was ever lost in the mail or botched by the lab.

Chris

Same here: Before I started processing color at home some years ago, too (have done that with BW since my youth), I send out my color films via mail order to the best labs in my country. Not a single film was ever lost by the mail service.
So yes: Don't be afraid by using mail order labs.
And:
Don't be afraid by color processing at home, too: Perfect quality, very easy, very cheap, lot's of fun .

 

[Ko.Fe.]

It was light and small (for a FF DSLR).

It is nothing special for FF DLSR in this regard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_6D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_Df

 

[Huss]

Why is mail order a barrier hard to overcome?

What I hate about it is the delay. It's about a 2 week turnaround - ship there, process, ship back. And if they screw something up - I'm talking about you TheDarkroom - it is a huge pain.
And I'd have to wait until I had a whole bunch of rolls to mail, as the cost to mail one or many is the same.

Best thing I did was discover DSLR film scanning. The reason I was mailing my film is because I also wanted it scanned. Now that I do that with a digicam, I drop it off at my local Samy's, pick it up same day if it is C41. (None of my local shops offer decent and/or affordable scanning).

 

[Phil_F_NM]

These days, in the USA, in some of the bigger cities, I think we're seeing what the market demands of our postal service and as a result, we're getting less than stellar delivery and far less confidence. I live in Philadelphia, PA and over the last decade I've seen our postal service get worse and worse. We've regularly had packages get lost and have had to file claims. Only on low-dollar items were we not remunerated. The hassle is the big part too.
So, we've seen the film market dwindle down to all but nothing and make a little comeback. During the dwindle time, only two labs in Philly have remained open and they do not have the uptick as has been seen other places. This is driven by our market here in this city, the region and the country as a whole. Add to that the fact that the USPS uses a lot of temps during busy seasons and times when full-time employees want leave. All this adds up to why I process my film at home. I'm not sending it out via USPS. I'm not going to use the local labs because they have had to increase their prices due to increased taxation here in the city with the recent city-wide assessment. All this adds up to far more risk than I want for my film. For those snarky folks out there who would say that I shouldn't live in Philadelphia, well I can't move simply for the sake of film.
Phil Forrest

 

[zuiko85]

Why is mail order a barrier hard to overcome?

These are my reasons, important to me and possibly no one else.

#1. Don’t want to pay postal rates going and coming. When C-41 processing was local you dropped it off when running other errands and thus incurred no extra expenses other than film. For B&W no problem, been doing that at home for 50 years. I’m 70 now and don’t want to start/learn at home C-41.

#2. As my post said, I like to transact business face to face, especially if there is a problem.

About #1. No, I don’t want to save up a years worth of film to amortize shipping costs. I probably wouldn’t shoot much color and it would take at least a year to get 10 rolls ready.

So....for color I could just print in my laundry room and get out the coloring pencils. Hey, fun for the whole family.

 

[B-9]

I have to honestly say I can relate zuiko.

Lately tho! I’ve been coming around.

I value my time and have looked outside home for process more and more.

I’ll always play with BW at home.

My habits permit shipping bulk.

 

[splitimageview]

For labs like the Darkroom it is easy to believe. There used to be labs on every corner, they are gone now so the remaining business has to go somewhere.

But that doesn’t necessarily imply a resurgence of film use, only a consolidation among those labs that court mail order business.