Increasing demand at professional labs: Detailed Numbers

Skiff said:
They were on the internal list for discontinuation, but then Fujifilm cancelled that decision and kept them in the line because of the positive market changes.
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So you have insight into their internal documents (any hints on what's on their current disco list)?

Do you know why Fuji wouldn't sell Velvia 50 in 4x5 outside Japan so the distributors have to use unofficial channels to get that film?
 
Skiff said:
That was the number for the North American market only.
The global market had its peak in 1999/2000 with about 3 billion rolls (source: Fujifilm Japan), and/or according to the PMA in 2001/2002 with about 3.5 billion rolls (including all formats and SUC). You will find this data in R. Shanebrooks book "Making Kodak Film" on page 267.
The GfK (big global market research company) published a number of 2.8 billion rolls for 1994/95.



This comment again demonstrates that you have no clue at all about this industry. For almost a decade now the global market research companies did not collect data anymore. And before that you had to pay lots of money for the data.
Now only the manufacturers, the distributors and small independent market researchers have the data (and we talked to them, not to "marketing people"). I've worked for decades as a professional photographer, lot's of excellent contacts remained.
Ilford e.g. had +9% in film sales in 2017, Kodak +5 to +20% depending on the market. Bergger had delivery problems because the batch of Pancro 400 IC made for them has been sold in only one year instaed of the expected two years. Fotoimpex explained they have double digit growth for years. Fujifilm Europe had massive film backorders, because demand surpassed supply in first half of 2018. Fujifilm introduced the new Maxima high-quality silver-halide paper at Photokina. JOBO is introducing new lab gear because of increasing demand (they were very satiesfied with demand from the Photokina, too). Just some examples from the last Photokina.

Again:
All the major companies in this industry have introduced new products, are currently working on new products and / or have started numerous marketing efforts. All very clear signs of the recent positive market change.
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Why continue with the insults? I'm asking completely fair and relevant questions.

For the sake of discussion, let's say you know an investor that would like to put money into this growing market. Convince the investor with the published data that backs up your claims.

If it exists, that shouldn't be hard to do...
 
brbo said:
So you have insight into their internal documents (any hints on what's on their current disco list)?
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As a long term customer for decades I've built a trustful relationsship to their staff responsible for distribution. No current disco list. The film programme is as it was presentd at Photokina.

brbo said:
Do you know why Fuji wouldn't sell Velvia 50 in 4x5 outside Japan so the distributors have to use unofficial channels to get that film?
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No, sorry, even my contacts there have no explanation why it is only available in Japan. But intrepid is regularly importing it to Europe meanwhile.
 
splitimageview said:
For the sake of discussion, let's say you know an investor that would like to put money into this growing market. Convince the investor with the published data that backs up your claims.

If it exists, that shouldn't be hard to do...
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Exactly, it is not hard. The manufacturers have the data for their company, and presented it to investors:
- Ilford has got an investor in 2015, a private equity group
- Film Ferrania has got an investor last summer
- ADOX CEO said investors have asked to invest in ADOX, but he rejected because he wants to keep full control over his "life-work" (which I can completely understand).
 
Skiff said:
No, sorry, even my contacts there have no explanation why it is only available in Japan. But intrepid is regularly importing it to Europe meanwhile.
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I know, that's where I get it. Maco also has it available on occasions for very short periods. Odd. There obviously is a demand, but no steady supply.
 
Skiff said:
Exactly, it is not hard. The manufacturers have the data for their company, and presented it to investors:
- Ilford has got an investor in 2015, a private equity group
- Film Ferrania has got an investor last summer
- ADOX CEO said investors have asked to invest in ADOX, but he rejected because he wants to keep full control over his "life-work" (which I can completely understand).
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And...still no data presented. Oh well...

:D
 
Ted Striker said:
Fujfiilm leads the pack in discontinuing emulsions.
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I think Fuji is the main indicator of the health of the film industry. If they start bringing back their B&W film and/or re-introducing something like the Klasse or the GA645 then we'll know we're in a film renaissance.
Heck, if all the supermarkets that sell Instax start selling Fuji 35mm or 120 film alongside it that'll be something

Otherwise film is still a niche within a niche
 
Ste_S said:
I think Fuji is the main indicator of the health of the film industry. If they start bringing back their B&W film and/or re-introducing something like the Klasse or the GA645 then we'll know we're in a film renaissance.
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That is simply delusional. I think most would be happy if the bleeding stopped at Fuji.
 
ptpdprinter said:
That is simply delusional. I think most would be happy if the bleeding stopped at Fuji.
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It may be delusional, but it's not totally unrealistic.


Fujifilm brought back Neopan 400 and Velvia.



Bringing back the Klasse cameras would certainly fit in with a film renaissance. Those were built by Cosina, not Fujifilm. Surely they could build them again. They were excellent cameras and priced very reasonably at under $500. Today they sell for over $1000!


I deeply regret not buying a Klasse camera when I was in Japan many years ago. Fujifilm said at the time that they were totally committed to film so I didnt have a sense of urgency.


Now I know how dishonest Fujifilm was. They discontinued that camera less than 6 months later.
 
Ted Striker said:
Fujfiilm leads the pack in discontinuing emulsions.
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Wrong.
Kodak has discontinued more emulsions in the last 15 years than Fujifilm.
Just look at Shanebrook's book 'Making Kodak Film'. Then you will see at once how much was axed. It is listed there.

Cheers, Jan
 
Ted Striker said:
Bringing back the Klasse cameras would certainly fit in with a film renaissance. Those were built by Cosina, not Fujifilm. Surely they could build them again. They were excellent cameras and priced very reasonably at under $500. Today they sell for over $1000!

I deeply regret not buying a Klasse camera when I was in Japan many years ago. Fujifilm said at the time that they were totally committed to film so I didnt have a sense of urgency.

Now I know how dishonest Fujifilm was. They discontinued that camera less than 6 months later.
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Again complete nonsense.
Fujifilm was absolutely honest about the 'Klasse' cameras. They were introduced in 2006. In a time, when most other manufacturers stopped film camera production.
And Fujifilm clearly said that this series is a limited production run of 8,000 cameras.
Everyone knew from the beginning that this offer is for a limited time.
Dedicated to the Japanese market, because in all other countries at that time no one was interested in a new film compact camera anymore. The digital boom was in full swing at that time.
Kudos to Fujifilm that they did this production run at that time. No other film manufacturer did that.

Cheers, Jan
 
Ted Striker said:
It may be delusional, but it's not totally unrealistic.


Fujifilm brought back Neopan 400 and Velvia.



Bringing back the Klasse cameras would certainly fit in with a film renaissance. Those were built by Cosina, not Fujifilm. Surely they could build them again. They were excellent cameras and priced very reasonably at under $500. Today they sell for over $1000!


I deeply regret not buying a Klasse camera when I was in Japan many years ago. Fujifilm said at the time that they were totally committed to film so I didnt have a sense of urgency.


Now I know how dishonest Fujifilm was. They discontinued that camera less than 6 months later.
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In case if you missed it, Cosina quit from film cameras some years ago. And very few of those who wants this klasse thing is not even niche market. It is no market for Cosina.
 
HHPhoto said:
Wrong.
Kodak has discontinued more emulsions in the last 15 years than Fujifilm.
Just look at Shanebrook's book 'Making Kodak Film'. Then you will see at once how much was axed. It is listed there.

Cheers, Jan
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Kodak went bankrupt. I'm talking about a stable company axing films. Fujifilm is robustly profitable. To an extent that Kodak cannot dream of. Fujifilm's share price is going up and to the right. Kodak's share price is in free fall. Investors are pricing in a second bankruptcy. If the current trend continues, Kodak will fall below $2/share. This month.

Fujifilm is profitable and has axed a huge amount of their films.

That is forever to Fujifilm's shame.
 
Ted Striker said:
Fujifilm is profitable and has axed a huge amount of their films.
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Fujfilm remained profitable in film production because they have stopped non-profitable products with too low demand.
Bitter for us photographers now, but good in the long-term because that keeps film production there running.
And it builds the basis for returning of films in the future when demand has increased enough so that it will be profitable again.

Ted Striker said:
That is forever to Fujifilm's shame.
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Future will show that it was hard action necessary to keep the lines running.

Cheers, Jan
 
HHPhoto said:
And it builds the basis for returning of films in the future when demand has increased enough so that it will be profitable again.
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So Fuji is going to keep the buildings and machinery idle and in good repair, and the employees trained and ready, while it patiently waits on a return of demand? Right next to its buggy whip factories?
 
HHPhoto said:
Hi,

disclaimer first: This posting is not adressed to all the "doom and gloom" prayers here. They will be hurt by the content :D, and therefore should stop reading immediately at this point ;).

This posting is just a bit more detailed information and facts for all of those here on rff who really shoot film and want a realistic picture of the situation on the market.
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A roll of Velvia at 16 Euro tells me enough about the market situation... :eek:

https://www.nordfoto.de/analoge-fot...ia-100-dia-farbfilm-umkehrfilm-135-36-rvp-100
 
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