Industar 61 L/D Focus Issue

[Ken.Cartouche]

Hi, all!

The day before yesterday my Industar lens arrived from a seller in Israel. It was reported to be in good condition, but when I mounted it on my Canon P the focus is WAY off. For instance, hings I knew that were only about 2 meters away are showing on the focus scale to be about 5 meters.

How to I fix this? Is this something I can easily fix myself, or should I send it off to someone? And, if so, who?

Thanks very much!

 

[Doug]

There could be two different issues possible... the accuracy of the focusing scale, and then the actual accuracy of focus. If it turns out the scale is wrong but the lens focuses fine with the rangefinder, would you be ok with that?

What does the seller have to say?

 

[Scrambler]

As Doug said, assume nothing. Check against measured targets. Focus with Rf and examine the photos for focus point versus expected. Take good notes.

The possible causes of actual focus error (camera rangefinder adjustment and lens collimation) need to be ruled out. So test another, accurate lens as well to check the camera (unless you already have used the camera extensively).

If it is just the scale and correct focus occurs, just mark a measurement point/ line/ arrow thing. Use whatever you want: paint, marker, engraving tool.

A high likelihood is that the lens has been put back together on the wrong helical thread. May or may not affect actual focus. Re-marking the set point will be easier than finding the correct helical thread.

 

[efinglada]

Check this thread, it explains how to put back correctly the lens.

Regards

http://mattsclassiccameras.com/industar_relubing/

 

[MikeDimit]

Just curious about paid price plus shipping? I do have a flange which I use on a digital Canon to be sure that lens focus right. Do have in mind that sometimes the scale of soviet lens are not exact, but focus is.

 

[Ken.Cartouche]

Thanks, everyone, for the responses!

I am certain that the focus is off and not just the scale. I also got a practically new 1956 Jupiter-8 from a different seller, and the focus works exactly as it should on that lens. One thing that tipped me off immediately that there was a problem is that the Industar lens won't focus on an object at infinity. It also will focus on objects well inside the 1 meter minimum distance. This is judged by looking at the rangefinder patch.

I got the lens for about $23, including shipping, so I haven't bothered to contact the seller. It would cost me more than I want to spend to ship it back; I'd rather put any money spent on it towards a repair so that I have what I know to be a good lens, rather than gambling on a replacement being any better.

I've looked at Matt Denton's tutorial before, and had considered trying that. The problem I see is that I have no idea where to start the helical to make it right, since I'll be putting it back together different from the way it came apart. Also on that note, is there a good lubricant for the lens that I can get locally, say at a hardware store?

 

[Fotohuis]

I use libricant from the bike store. I also followed that tutorial of Matt for the assy of the Industar-61 L/D. The problem of more recent CCCP lenses is the tolerance which is often out of regular assembly.
My Jupiter-8 and Jupiter-12 are much better in that way. Also my Zorki 4K (1977) is more sturdy then my FED 5b which is from 1990 incl. that Industar.

 

[Fotohuis]

In a few weeks a test on high resolution film:
Jupiter-8 F/2,0-50mm versus Industar-61 L/D F/2,8-55mm versus Leica Summicron F/2,0-50mm. 🙂

 

[wolves3012]

A high likelihood is that the lens has been put back together on the wrong helical thread. May or may not affect actual focus. Re-marking the set point will be easier than finding the correct helical thread.

I'm pretty sure that's not possible, having re-lubed more of these than I like to think about I've never made any note of the entry-point and they all worked properly afterwards. Without pulling one apart, I can't state it as fact but I think it's a single-helix focus thread (why would you bother with more anyway?).

The main error people make is in failing to note the infinity-stop position. If that were the case here, that could well explain why the focus goes to less than 1 metre and fails to reach infinity. It's actually easy to correct if that's what's wrong. Take out the limit pins, screw the helical fully in until it seats lightly, then back it out only far enough to re-fit the limit pins.

There's another good write-up here of how the lens is disassembled, it's a very easy lens to work on:
http://pentax-manuals.com/repairs/i6ldservice.pdf

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I'm pretty sure that's not possible, having re-lubed more of these than I like to think about I've never made any note of the entry-point and they all worked properly afterwards. Without pulling one apart, I can't state it as fact but I think it's a single-helix focus thread (why would you bother with more anyway?).

The main error people make is in failing to note the infinity-stop position. If that were the case here, that could well explain why the focus goes to less than 1 metre and fails to reach infinity. It's actually easy to correct if that's what's wrong. Take out the limit pins, screw the helical fully in until it seats lightly, then back it out only far enough to re-fit the limit pins.

There's another good write-up here of how the lens is disassembled, it's a very easy lens to work on:
http://pentax-manuals.com/repairs/i6ldservice.pdf

+1 its the most easy lens to work on (I did four of them including two Industars 26m which have almost the same barrel): actually you can't go wrong...

 

[Fotohuis]

Very good hint and tips!

 

[Ken.Cartouche]

Okay, I'm starting to re-evaluate the problem. When I got the Canon P, it was lensless, and I checked the rangefinder patch at infinity by looking at a building about a quarter mile away and carefully moving the rangefinder arm all the way inward. The patch lined up perfectly on that building. Later, when I got my Jupiter-8, I tested the close and infinity focus again, and all was well.

Today, when I took my Canon/Jupiter combination out to run a test roll, I noticed that the rangefinder patch wasn't lining up at infinity. I took the lens off and focused on a distant building, like I did initially, but now the patch doesn't line up like it did before.

Somehow, in the time between getting my Jupiter-8 and going out to shoot it, the rangefinder has gotten out of alignment. And it is making me wonder now if that's what's wrong when I put on the Industar.

I'll probably still dismantle the Industar though, if only to clean out the old semi-congealed lubricant. I'm glad to hear that they're so easy to work on!

 

[Scrambler]

I'm pretty sure that's not possible, having re-lubed more of these than I like to think about I've never made any note of the entry-point and they all worked properly afterwards. Without pulling one apart, I can't state it as fact but I think it's a single-helix focus thread (why would you bother with more anyway?).

The main error people make is in failing to note the infinity-stop position. If that were the case here, that could well explain why the focus goes to less than 1 metre and fails to reach infinity. It's actually easy to correct if that's what's wrong. Take out the limit pins, screw the helical fully in until it seats lightly, then back it out only far enough to re-fit the limit pins.

There's another good write-up here of how the lens is disassembled, it's a very easy lens to work on:
http://pentax-manuals.com/repairs/i6ldservice.pdf

Glad to hear! Can occur with other lenses.

Why have more than one thread in a helical? To get smooth rapid focussing.

 

[Ken.Cartouche]

I have a friend at work whose father is from the Ukraine. She has his FED 3b that she remembers from when they were growing up. It's in fantastic condition, nicer even than the Canon P I just bought, and it's in very nice shape. The I-61 that came on the FED focuses perfectly at both infinity and at 1 metre.

So, I put both my Jupiter-8 and my I-61 L/D on that FED. They, too, focus perfectly at the distances I mentioned. To complete the trial, I put my friend's I-61 on my Canon P and found the same focus issues I have with my own lenses.

So, my lenses are probably fine; it's my camera that's the problem.

I still need to dismantle them for relubing (or send them off to have it done.) I'm going to shoot the FED this weekend, and I think I'm going to try all the lenses to see how they look.

 

[Fotohuis]

Soon, a new test on high resolution micro film in the Dutch Analogue Photo Forum (AFF).

From left to right:
Industar-61 L/D, Leica Summicron 50mm, Jupiter-8.

 

[wolves3012]

I still need to dismantle them for relubing (or send them off to have it done.)

Seriously, the Industar 26 and 61 lenses are so easy to work on. For the price of a cheap set of jeweller's screwdrivers and a bit of degreaser plus a tube of white lithium cycle grease, it's probably less than the postage costs. Unless you're really mechanically ham-fisted, it's really no contest.

 

[Fotohuis]

In the mean time I fixed the Industar-61 L/D and an Industar-61 Zebra from a FED-3. They both had the same problem. After using new grease on the helicoid they both are preforming well now.
It is really not too difficult to do. But you need the right screw drivers and a good quality and suitable grease.