Info on older 35mm 'Lux or 'Cron

[nickmeertens]

I've decided to try and find an older (and somewhat affordable) 35mm Leica as a one lens solution for my Epson R-D1. I am thinking a v2 or v3 Summicron or a Summilux from the same era. I have some specific questions concerning these lenses I hope the experts in this forum can answer...:

• What kind of lens cap / shade would fit the v2 of the Summicron and is a shade neccesary? The front element seemed recessed much more than in the v3 model I saw?
• Is there much difference in 'handling' between the two summicrons and between those and the summilux?
• How much difference in size is there between these lenses, does anyone now of a side by side picture?
• What would be a fair price for a used example with clean glass that works properly for these different lenses (black versions)?
• Can someone who has experience with both lux en cron give an objective opinion on the difference in the way these lenses perform optically/draw?
• Are there any other points of interest I should know about before buying one?

Thank you so much for your help, regards, Nick

 

[markinlondon]

This page is your friend for weight comparisons. I't not much use for side by side pictures though. Scroll down a bit to find the lens reviews.

http://www.kbcamera.com/mreviews

 

[ffttklackdedeng]

For a size comparison of several 35 'crons you could check the second posting on http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32879. Even though it's not V2 vs V3 you'll see that all 'crons except the ASPH are almost the same size.

As far as I remember the V2 and V3 were the same optic formula so the differences if any should come down the the cosmetics of the lens like scratches and fog

 

[Xmas]

See the cameraquest site for lots of leica lore including a brief on each type...

Get one post '70 the internal coatings are more resiliant to time.

The lux is a low volume lens and although not identified by collectors (as such) still is difficult to get a good optical condition cheap one. It is very compact (mine is a 43mm filter), but shows trace of this on slides, if you are hyper.

The cron in good condition is stellar performer I had several 39mm filter ones. The post '80 version is a high refractive glass statement lens, but may attract a premium. The focus lever if you use a lever to follow focus is useful to have, But I found I dont need a lever, depends on hand size and finger length...

Both need hoods and both have inverted cone cut out reversibles with caps from Leitz (and both hoods are collectors pieces, the hood caps are near impossible to find).

You will need a tripod and slow film to see any difference between, if you use 1.4 a lot you need the lux. The Noct is bigger and slower handling.

Noel

P.S. oops did not see 35mm... sorry

 

[nickmeertens]

This page is your friend for weight comparisons. I't not much use for side by side pictures though. Scroll down a bit to find the lens reviews.

http://www.kbcamera.com/mreviews

Mark, thank you for that link, most helpfull. KBCamera doesn't really differentiate between a V2 and V3 of the Summicron. Elsewhere I read that the v2 has an S7 thread, not 39mm and also has a more recessed front element. Does anyone know exactly what the difference is between v2 and v3?

 

[x-ray]

I've never owned the v2 and v3 summicron but have owned and shot extensively with the v1 and v4 summicron and the v1 summilux. The v1 summilux can be unusable under some conditions where light sources are in the frame and flare can be a serious issue. It also suffers seriously from secondary images under the right conditions. In the 60'sto the 80's it was the best we had so we did with the tools at hand but by todays standards it's not a particularly good performer at wider apertures. The price is way beyond it's value and will run around $1300 US for an average sample. The v1 summicron is another lens of only fair performance by todays standards. Like the Summilux it's soft at the esges wide open and only fair in the cneter. Illumination falls off severely at the corners wide open and it's quite expensive due to collectors. Black in the v1 will be very expensive due to the few made. The v4 is much better and a generally good performer. I just sold mine that gave me years of good service, The prices can run from around $800 to 1,500 US depending on condition and canadian vs German built. I replaced the v4 summicron with a new Biogon that I like much better. It has better ergonomics to me, contrast, flare resistance, resolution and build. The new Biogon is about $800 US but can be found new for less and seriously outperforms the v4 summicron. I hate to reference Erwin Puts but her writes the Biogon exceeds the performance of the new asph summicron.

If you search you should find some images that I posted showing the flare and secondary images of the old summilux.

 

[nickmeertens]

I've never owned the v2 and v3 summicron but have owned and shot extensively with the v1 and v4 summicron and the v1 summilux. The v1 summilux can be unusable under some conditions where light sources are in the frame and flare can be a serious issue. It also suffers seriously from secondary images under the right conditions. In the 60'sto the 80's it was the best we had so we did with the tools at hand but by todays standards it's not a particularly good performer at wider apertures. The price is way beyond it's value and will run around $1300 US for an average sample. The v1 summicron is another lens of only fair performance by todays standards. Like the Summilux it's soft at the esges wide open and only fair in the cneter. Illumination falls off severely at the corners wide open and it's quite expensive due to collectors. Black in the v1 will be very expensive due to the few made. The v4 is much better and a generally good performer. I just sold mine that gave me years of good service, The prices can run from around $800 to 1,500 US depending on condition and canadian vs German built. I replaced the v4 summicron with a new Biogon that I like much better. It has better ergonomics to me, contrast, flare resistance, resolution and build. The new Biogon is about $800 US but can be found new for less and seriously outperforms the v4 summicron. I hate to reference Erwin Puts but her writes the Biogon exceeds the performance of the new asph summicron.

If you search you should find some images that I posted showing the flare and secondary images of the old summilux.

Thank you for this information x-ray, I was leaning towards the summicron instead of the Summilux and your observations have made me lean a little more. I hear the Zeiss is a lot bigger than the older summicrons, just how big is it really?

 

[Xmas]

Our owner says...

http://cameraquest.com/mlenses.htm

The lux with the series filter in the hood and no threads for a filter is inconvenient. The later lux are supposed to flare less, and mine ('72 I think) will flare, in extreme conditions but Ive not not had spurious images.

You need a hood with any lens, especially the early leitz.

Noel

 

[nickmeertens]

Thank you for your help and the good links.
After considering the different options it turned out there was a 35mm summilux with my name on it for a little over 800 euro's on the German Ebay. The extra stop but mostly the somewhat larger size did it for my big hands.
I'm really looking forward to receiving my first real Leica lens!