Interesting Comments on Apparent New "Leica M 240" photos

[bobbyrab]

I know we shouldn't be reading too much into these first few examples to apear, but they're a long way from what I'd like to have seen.
I want an alternative to Canon files, and my M6 with film gives me this. These could have been taken with any Canon of the last few years.

 

[mani]

...and my M6 with film gives me this...

Seeing the way that Leica digital is heading, I sold my M8, bought a (magnificent!) Mamiya 6 kit, and use it with my Leica M6, a CL, a 500cm and a couple of nice old Pen half-frames. Enjoy your M6 - put some Portra in there and bask in the sheer wonderfulness, dimensionality, beautiful skin-tones and highlight rendition it gives you. Every now and again you can look at those images on the Leica blog to remind you how lucky you are to have such an awesome camera in your hands. 😉

 

[bobbyrab]

Seeing the way that Leica digital is heading, I sold my M8, bought a (magnificent!) Mamiya 6 kit, and use it with my Leica M6, a CL, a 500cm and a couple of nice old Pen half-frames. Enjoy your M6 - put some Portra in there and bask in the sheer wonderfulness, dimensionality, beautiful skin-tones and highlight rendition it gives you. Every now and again you can look at those images on the Leica blog to remind you how lucky you are to have such an awesome camera in your hands. 😉

I don't disagree with any of that, but for work needs the high iso capability is difficult to refuse, while my Fuji x100 tells me that digital colour doesn't have to be so.....well, digital. While Fuji seem to be trying to find a separate niche for themselves, Leica look to be squeezing a Canon into a Range Finder.

 

[mani]

While Fuji seem to be trying to find a separate niche for themselves, Leica look to be squeezing a Canon into a Range Finder.

+1 what bobby said

 

[Pioneer]

There is certainly no pressing need for me to upgrade my M9. It continues to do exactly what I ask it to do, just like my M6. If I need a CMOS sensor for my work I'll pull out my Canon. I am afraid that Leica is starting to loose its differentiation, something that seems to be very easy to do in this digital world. I can already use Leica glass on other cameras via adaptors, now I can take Canon-like images on my Leica.

 

[Godfrey]

I posted an opinion on another forum this morning to the title of "Expectations for the new M" which I think are germaine here as well:

My expectations are very simple:

- It will be a fine Leica, an advance on the M9 in terms of responsiveness and features, lens compatibility and versatility. The ability to do Live View and capture video will expand the M's usefulness by quite a lot.

- It will be different from an M9 in terms of how it sees.

Every digital camera I've owned has a slightly different way of seeing. That's why I've owned so many different ones. The M9's eye is quite lovely, I'm very happy with it. The new M will most likely have a different eye ... new sensor, more pixels, different microlens setup, etc ... but until I have the camera in my hands I cannot and will not judge whether I like it more, less, or the same as the M9.

- It potentially can help simplify my camera gear by some measure. Its ability to do macro and long lens work means that I would have less need to keep my other TTL electronic and SLR bodies around, as those two things are most of what I do with them.

However, I've seen that a good deal of my attempt to simplify my gear hasn't really done much to do that, so I don't expect a miracle. Because all of my cameras are different, I find it a pleasure to use different ones in different circumstances. I don't need to sell any of them other than to satisfy an internal urge to less ownership of things. So, the likelihood is that buying a new M will just add another camera to the already overstuffed cabinet. Such it is. :-\

I look forward to the new M, without any haste or anxiousness. I'll be using the M9 for some years to come, I expect that if I decide to buy a new M it will be in 2014 or later. Leica will have plenty of time to work out any new product issues before I plunk my money down. 🙂

G

 

[furcafe]

A digital Canon RF would be quite popular, just not popular enough for Canon to bother making one.

I don't disagree with any of that, but for work needs the high iso capability is difficult to refuse, while my Fuji x100 tells me that digital colour doesn't have to be so.....well, digital. While Fuji seem to be trying to find a separate niche for themselves, Leica look to be squeezing a Canon into a Range Finder.

 

[furcafe]

Exactly, not 90% from the M 240.

well... here's the exif distribution:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...-new-official-m240-pics-up-6.html#post2294339

 

[shadowfox]

I think for their next digital M, Leica should learn from RD-1 that a manual shutter cocking "advance lever" would bring a flood of nostalgia and money out of the pockets of their potential customers. 🙂

 

[ZlatkoBatistich]

I am afraid that Leica is starting to loose its differentiation, something that seems to be very easy to do in this digital world.

I'm not sure Leica needs a CCD sensor in order to have its differentiation. After all, Leica had sufficient differentiation throughout the film era without the need for special film. Leica used the same Tri-X, Kodachrome and other films that every other camera used. And yet it found its market. The differentiation was in the body type and the lenses, including the overall size, quality and feel of the system.

 

[jsrockit]

I'm not sure Leica needs a CCD sensor in order to have its differentiation. After all, Leica had sufficient differentiation throughout the film era without the need for special film. Leica used the same Tri-X, Kodachrome and other films that every other camera used. And yet it found its market. The differentiation was in the body type and the lenses, including the overall size, quality and feel of the system.

I agree. If it removes the rangefinder from its M cameras, then we can talk about differentiation.

 

[Blaze]

Leica are a company trading in a World that is driven by profit. Leica nearly went to the wall 5 or so years ago because only the die hard Leica users like me, bought and used cameras that to everyone else in the World were old fashioned and not desireable, compared to the Japanese techie things. I personally don't like the way Leica have turned into the Luis Vitton fashion icon of the camera World, however they have recently posted record profits and they can now name their price for their " desirable " product. ( see 50mm asph ). So as the saying goes you pays ya money and takes ya choice. Come on Fuji full frame M body please

 

[Turtle]

I choose the tool based on utility and form factor rather than split bem based on CMOS and CCD, but I guess we are all different.

There is certainly no pressing need for me to upgrade my M9. It continues to do exactly what I ask it to do, just like my M6. If I need a CMOS sensor for my work I'll pull out my Canon. I am afraid that Leica is starting to loose its differentiation, something that seems to be very easy to do in this digital world. I can already use Leica glass on other cameras via adaptors, now I can take Canon-like images on my Leica.

 

[mani]

I agree. If it removes the rangefinder from its M cameras, then we can talk about differentiation.

Looking at the way people are preparing for the new M (there's a REALLY long thread over on LUF, as you know) the most interesting thing is the way so many M-users (current and first-time) are stocking-up on lenses that will require the use of live-view: either through the Olympus EVF or at arm's length on the LCD.

Having looked at the camera output so far, I think it's fair to say that the real excitement being generated by the M-240 has got nothing to do with "image quality" and everything to do with the supposed potential of the camera 'freed' from the 'limitations' of the rangefinder.

As far as I can see, what the 240 has to offer, is a luxurious full-frame mirrorless vehicle for a wider range of lenses.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I am interested to see if Leica will use the CMOS in a future version of the M-E. I would rather have a stripped down version of the new M.

 

[semilog]

A lot of people have talked themselves into thinking that CCD is magic in a misguided attempt to justify their M8's and 9's. But CMOS is clearly the way to go. Even research microscopists, who relied on CCDs for 20+ years, are converting en masse to high-end CMOS sensors except in specialized applications.

I do still have an Olympus E-500 and that 8 Mpix Kodak sensor does give splendid output at low ISO. But at high ISO it just falls to pieces while my CMOS cameras (especially the Fujis) just keep going.

Have faith, folks. I have a good share of gripes with Leica but they do know what they're doing here. Expect the M240 to be very good. Just don't expect it to be magic. And remember that at ISO 1600 or below a Mamiya 7 loaded with Portra will still beat it on most any IQ axis for a fraction of the price.

 

[semilog]

I am interested to see if Leica will use the CMOS in a future version of the M-E. I would rather have a stripped down version of the new M.

I would be amazed if they did not.

 

[clayne]

Have faith, folks. I have a good share of gripes with Leica but they do know what they're doing here. Expect the M240 to be very good. Just don't expect it to be magic. And remember that at ISO 1600 or below a Mamiya 7 loaded with Portra will still beat it on most any IQ axis for a fraction of the price.

6x7 Portra and Mamiya combo is probably going to be in well excess of 50MP+ equivalent (I know, not an exact science) - so I'd say it's a bit more than "beat it."

Now with regards to the actual photographs shown, perhaps we might have seen much better results if the photographer spent more time actually trying to see with the vision he's built up over the years, and less time spent chimping the little screen. Every single image shown in that flash video is pure disengaged crap.

It just amazes me that people do not recognize the negatives of the typical shoot->chimp->shoot feedback loop. Immediate output subjectively guiding/impacting the following input (the next shots) is a bad thing.

Take the damn technology out of the equation. Engage your subjects. Stay on the same wavelength of what you're shooting/involved in. Trust your eye and seeing. Then decent photography with actual feeling will come out of it.

 

[flyalf]

I love Leica, but do not understand the unwillingness of some to accept that a) anything can be subjectively better than a Leica or b) that newer Leicaas can be better than old ones, esp in the digital realm. How many people b1tched about the M9 and proclaimed their M8s superior tools? Is this all connected to people still hoping digital Leicas will be an investment?

a)I dont accept that since Im the judge for myself :angel:. Objectively its not hard to find products that are better in some kind of way than Leica.

b) Not only do I accept that, but I expect and demand that newer are better than the old ones. Looking at specs this seems to be the case.

A normal consumer digital camera model as an investment? I dont think so.

What I don't get is
c) that some are questioning the artistic qualities of some early images from a given model-to-come . Honestly, are there still someone who believes that the inherent artistic values of an image are somehow related to a slighly newer model?

 

[Doug]

...What I don't get is
c) that some are questioning the artistic qualities of some early images from a given model-to-come . Honestly, are there still someone who believes that the inherent artistic values of an image are somehow related to a slighly newer model?

Exactly... IMO this is not an artistic endeavor at this point; these guys are testing firmware and looking for challenging situations to stress it. It's simply a technical exercise. We may see art after the cameras ship to customers. 😉