Interesting what Leica admitted

[MP Guy]

This is old news but may give some hope to those waiting for the digital M.

While reading tghe Leica Press release for this year on their website, I came accross this quote.

_Sales declines due to changes in the photo market and delayed introduction of new products
_Result forecast of December still standing[

I see this as hope for the digital M. They admit changes in photography is costing them and I think they know they need to adapt in order to survive. Lets hope we are not disapointed

 

[Huck Finn]

Let's hope that they can find people who want to invest in a company that has been showing losses year after year. Is that where you'd put your money? If they can't after the proposed stock split, it may be over.

 

[Jarvis]

General understanding here in the German speaking part of the world is that leica as it is now will go tits-up by the end of the year. The name obviously will be sold and used. We have had some statements and views in various German business Mags, since then the demand for MP's and M7's is huge.....
One of the arguments of leica was that the current range of Voigtländer lenses crossed the path of the well sold current Leica range and turnover within this segment was 40% below expectations .... Must say something about the quality of these optics.

 

[Fred]

I can well believe Jarvis, the Voigtländer lenses are very good considering that they cost a fraction of a used Leica price. With quoted quality close to the 80/90's Leica pre asph lenses the Voigtländer are a new bargain. Given the financial chance and a large lottery win I'd still prefer the Leica lenses for the lack of flare, quality of construction............chance to afford one.

 

[back alley]

tits-up

some sort of german phrase?

joe🙂

 

[Socke]

tits-up

some sort of german phrase?

joe🙂

Hm, I heard it first in britain.

And back on topic, IMHO Leica is doomed. One of our bigger photo dealers has "Leica Days". One of his smaller shops is full of Leica M6ttls, lenses from 28 to 135mm and so on. A shopwindow full of stacked white cases ...

Since when ist the M6ttl out of production?

 

[Jarvis]

´Tits-up" ..... got this from a guy in Texas actually, find it a most remarkable expression and have used it frequently ever since

 

[FrankS]

It's sort of an international phrase.

 

[Jarvis]

Socke: Leica oriented shops like Leica bei Meister and Leicashop (austria) have increased their prices of all Leica products by about 20% in the last 2 months ... I admit I have been looking out for an M5 which in february where all in the 600 to 800€ range and now suddenly have moved to 800 to 1200.... what does this tell us ????

 

[Roman]

Just passed Foto Wachtl (old Viennese camera store) today - they had an MP and an M7 in the window - prices for each: 3490 Euros (that's about 4500 USD) - that's where the real problems of Leica come from, even at half that price it would still be an expensive camera; how many people are there & have the cash to get a boy-toy that only very few cognoscenti will recognize, and how many are there that really, really need that camera for their type of photography and have that kind of cash to spend...? Not a lot, I'd guess.

Roman

 

[Terence T]

We've got "bottoms up", "heads up", "hands up" so why not "tits up".

 

[Roman]

How about 'belly-up', seems to be the closest to what's intended bythe above-mentioned term...

Roman

 

[Nikon Bob]

Roman is spot on in what he says and Voigtlander saw an opportunity and filled it. I don't like to see any company go tits up (enough unemployment already) but it happens for a reason.

Bob

 

[schaubild]

I keep wondering about the huge price difference for a new MP/M7 between here in Europe and the USA.

 

[bmattock]

How about 'belly-up', seems to be the closest to what's intended bythe above-mentioned term...

Roman

I quite agree. Or...

"Taking a dirt nap."

"No longer a going concern."

"Rung down the curtain and gone to join the Choir Invisible."

"Pushing up the daisies."

"Snuffed it."

"Kicked the bucket."

"Stick a fork in them, they're done."

"Dead as a door-nail." (I have no idea what a door-nail is)

"Dead as the Dodo." (The last of which were eaten by sailors)

"Assumed room temperature."

"RIP."

"Passed on."

"Six feet under."

"Gone to meet their Maker."

"Go directly to your respective Valhallas, do not pass 'go', do not collect two hundred ah-dollahs." (Thanks to Tom Lehrer)

"Gone to the Happy Hunting Grounds."

"'Eee's dead, mate!" (Courtesy of Monty Python's "Dead Parrot Sketch")

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

PS - I predict that Leica will survive. Leica is part of the German prestige, ingrained into the national character. It may be an independant company, but Leica *is* Germany. The German government will figure something out. Of course, I am often wrong.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Socke]

PS - I predict that Leica will survive. Leica is part of the German prestige, ingrained into the national character. It may be an independant company, but Leica *is* Germany. The German government will figure something out. Of course, I am often wrong.

Heard of AEG lately?

Germany has accepted shareholder value at last, see Deutsche Bank earning 1 billion Euro and laying off 6000 employees.

A working company isn't as important as it was and quarterly reports which may increase the shareprice are most important then products or other trivialities.

 

[bmattock]

Ailgemeine Electrizitäts Gesellschaft is not "Germany" the way Leica is. We'll see. I'm betting Germany won't let there be a world without a Leica in it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Socke]

Ah, an example.

In 1999 KKR and Goldman Sachs took over Siemens-Nixdorf. In 2004 they had an IPO. From the 350 million Euro Siemens-Nixdorf got 125 and the other 225 went to the investors. In the five years prior to the IPO the investors got 160 million out of the company.

Think about it, 385 million Euro in five years!

Another investment of KKR is Tenovis where the employees waived 12,5% of their income to save their jobsin 2002, in summer 2003 half of them where layed off.

Did you know that moving jobs out of germany is tax deductable?

 

[Socke]

Ailgemeine Electrizitäts Gesellschaft is not "Germany" the way Leica is. We'll see. I'm betting Germany won't let there be a world without a Leica in it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

AEG was for some 100 years on paar with Siemens.

They produced the first rotating current engine, the first audiotape, and developed PAL color television.

Leica was never comparable to AEG, wether products sold nor people employed. In the 70's every household in germany had at least one AEG gadget.

And with a deficite exceeding the allowed 3% for four years now, germany, the country, has nothing left to save a small business just to keep a name.

Sorry 'bout that, but Leica has no more chances than Rover had :-(

 

[RML]

I have to agree with Socke on this. Some years ago we had a reknowned airplane manufacturer here in Holland, name Fokker (yes, thé Fokker of WW1 fame). The industry collapsed and Fokker was gone, except for the aerospace dep. Fokker was the pride of Dutch industry but still it didn't survive. Same for car manufacturer DAF and a score of wharfs and ship builders. And is Philips still really Dutch (the HQ is here but most of the production is elsewhere)?

Name and fame and past track record don't mean anything anymore in an age where shareholders, managers' bonusses and short term profits are more important than a company's assets, either knowledge or personel.