MickH
Well-known
Does anyone remember this thread?
Well, the BBC have finally decided it's worth a few kilobytes...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7351252.stm
"Guidelines agreed between senior police and the media were adopted by all forces in England and Wales last year. They state that police have no power to prevent the media taking photos.
They state that "once images are recorded, [the police] have no power to delete or confiscate them without a court order, even if [the police] think they contain damaging or useful evidence."
Well, the BBC have finally decided it's worth a few kilobytes...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7351252.stm
"Guidelines agreed between senior police and the media were adopted by all forces in England and Wales last year. They state that police have no power to prevent the media taking photos.
They state that "once images are recorded, [the police] have no power to delete or confiscate them without a court order, even if [the police] think they contain damaging or useful evidence."
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BillP
Rangefinder General
I'm competing in the latest "Barnack Challenge" over on the LUF. The theme this time is "uniforms". I was up in London today, in the City with my trusty IID. I wandered around searching for suitable subjects; the best I had found was a couple of street cleaners - two nuns that I spotted seemed to have a sixth sense and managed to dodge me not once but twice.
Then outside the Bank of England I spotted a couple of PCSOs hanging around near a statue looking bored. I strode up to them, smiled sweetly and asked if I could take their photo. One asked why - I explained as above - and the other asked where I would like them to pose. I popped off a shot, and asked for another, which was readily agreed to. I thanked them kindly for their co-operation and they wished me luck.
I would like to think that is was my personal charm that led them to believe as they did. More realistically, I think that the fact that I was polite about it, direct rather than surreptitious, and smartly dressed all contributed to a positive encounter.
I would also like to think that they will in turn be a little more tolerant to the next photographer they encounter.
Regards,
Bill
Then outside the Bank of England I spotted a couple of PCSOs hanging around near a statue looking bored. I strode up to them, smiled sweetly and asked if I could take their photo. One asked why - I explained as above - and the other asked where I would like them to pose. I popped off a shot, and asked for another, which was readily agreed to. I thanked them kindly for their co-operation and they wished me luck.
I would like to think that is was my personal charm that led them to believe as they did. More realistically, I think that the fact that I was polite about it, direct rather than surreptitious, and smartly dressed all contributed to a positive encounter.
I would also like to think that they will in turn be a little more tolerant to the next photographer they encounter.
Regards,
Bill
MickH
Well-known
Let's hope they tell their mates how nice it is to be snapped in the street. Maybe there could be a sibling group set up, say the Int'l Asc. of Patriotic Street Photographees
BillP
Rangefinder General
Interesting. Thanks very mucb for that.
It's now apparently up to 177 signatures, making it 15th out of 1520 such motions. UK readers, if you haven't done so already, contact your MP and make sure they have signed. This is IMPORTANT - it's the thin end of the wedge.
Regards,
Bill
It's now apparently up to 177 signatures, making it 15th out of 1520 such motions. UK readers, if you haven't done so already, contact your MP and make sure they have signed. This is IMPORTANT - it's the thin end of the wedge.
Regards,
Bill
rolleistef
Well-known
Dear Pitxu,
I just read the message about your current location on page 1 of the thread.
It could be interesting for those of our fellow photographers who don't live in France - and furthermore, for those who don't leave in Europe - to explain why you consider that the Pays Basque is occupied - no political debate about it, I perfectly accept what you think even if I don't really agree - and what you mean by "occupied", because most of the time it rather sounds like "occupation with tanks, army, restrictions of civil liberties, curfew", and it isn't really the case in this part of Europe.
Moreover, most people don't know where the Pays Basque is, for the same reason that we couldn't locate at first glance the Sierra Madre or Orange County. It could help explaining why you think it could be linked with the creation of such an association? Just my two centimes!
All the best,
I just read the message about your current location on page 1 of the thread.
It could be interesting for those of our fellow photographers who don't live in France - and furthermore, for those who don't leave in Europe - to explain why you consider that the Pays Basque is occupied - no political debate about it, I perfectly accept what you think even if I don't really agree - and what you mean by "occupied", because most of the time it rather sounds like "occupation with tanks, army, restrictions of civil liberties, curfew", and it isn't really the case in this part of Europe.
Moreover, most people don't know where the Pays Basque is, for the same reason that we couldn't locate at first glance the Sierra Madre or Orange County. It could help explaining why you think it could be linked with the creation of such an association? Just my two centimes!
All the best,
rolleistef
Well-known
I got a PM from Pitxu who answered he prefered not to start political debates.
I'd just like to explain to our fellow non-European what the "issue" for Basque Land is.
Once upon a time there was a people that came from a still unknown place. We may have some clue that they be related to the Japanese people (yes!) because of some biological specifity, and also some words that are close, such as the word for "river" : "gawa" in Japanese, "gave" in Basque
There are "two" Basque Lands : a "French" one and a "Spanish" one.
The "French" one is located on the far - South-West of France, on the Atlantic coast, in the region of Bayonne, Anglet and Biarritz. The "Spanish" one is separated from it by the moutains Pyrenées.
In France there are about 35 thousand Basques, much more in Spain. Both are asking for independance or devolution. I think Pitxu refers to the Basque Land as an "occupied" country because it's part of France and has very little autonomy, and it's not to be taken in the first meaning of "occupied" (military)
The Basque culture has a very strong identity, and is quite unique by its specificity, hence its interest.
I hope it will help knowing Pitxu a bit better. It was only an answer to my own message to his request , sorry for out-topicking.
Cheers,
I'd just like to explain to our fellow non-European what the "issue" for Basque Land is.
Once upon a time there was a people that came from a still unknown place. We may have some clue that they be related to the Japanese people (yes!) because of some biological specifity, and also some words that are close, such as the word for "river" : "gawa" in Japanese, "gave" in Basque
There are "two" Basque Lands : a "French" one and a "Spanish" one.
The "French" one is located on the far - South-West of France, on the Atlantic coast, in the region of Bayonne, Anglet and Biarritz. The "Spanish" one is separated from it by the moutains Pyrenées.
In France there are about 35 thousand Basques, much more in Spain. Both are asking for independance or devolution. I think Pitxu refers to the Basque Land as an "occupied" country because it's part of France and has very little autonomy, and it's not to be taken in the first meaning of "occupied" (military)
The Basque culture has a very strong identity, and is quite unique by its specificity, hence its interest.
I hope it will help knowing Pitxu a bit better. It was only an answer to my own message to his request , sorry for out-topicking.
Cheers,
MickH
Well-known
Thanks for the geography lesson.
Using Bill P's template I have extracted a promise from my local MP to sign Austin Mitchell's EDM.
What actual good it will do I dunno. But every little helps.
Cheers.
Using Bill P's template I have extracted a promise from my local MP to sign Austin Mitchell's EDM.
What actual good it will do I dunno. But every little helps.
Cheers.
BillP
Rangefinder General
Nice one, Mick. The more of our elected representatives do this, the better.
Regards,
Bill
Regards,
Bill
BillP
Rangefinder General
And for those that think we are making a fuss about nothing:
This is what existing powers to counter terrorism are being misused for:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7369543.stm
Not only that - the Counter Terrorism Bill 2007-2008 is making it's way through Parliament. It contains a clause that is deeply worrying:
"The Bill contains a number of provisions which the Government states are designed to enhance counter-terrorism powers. There has been a lot of fuss about extending detention without trial, but that is not the only worrying aspect.
The main elements of the Bill are:
* a provision to allow the pre-charge detention of terrorist suspects to be extended from 28 days to 42 days in certain circumstances
* changes to enable the post-charge questioning of terrorist suspects and the drawing of adverse inferences from silence
* imposing requirements on people convicted of terrorist offences to let authorities know where they are living and any changes to their circumstances
* enhanced sentencing of offenders who commit offences with a terrorist connection
* provision for inquests and inquiries to be heard without a jury.
The Bill would also confer further powers to gather and share information for counter-terrorism and other purposes, and amend the law relating to asset-freezing procedures."
Source: UK Parliament - Parliament Home Page
In other words, remain silent and you will be assumed guilty.
The slippery slope is being greased as I type.
Regards,
Bill
This is what existing powers to counter terrorism are being misused for:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7369543.stm
Not only that - the Counter Terrorism Bill 2007-2008 is making it's way through Parliament. It contains a clause that is deeply worrying:
"The Bill contains a number of provisions which the Government states are designed to enhance counter-terrorism powers. There has been a lot of fuss about extending detention without trial, but that is not the only worrying aspect.
The main elements of the Bill are:
* a provision to allow the pre-charge detention of terrorist suspects to be extended from 28 days to 42 days in certain circumstances
* changes to enable the post-charge questioning of terrorist suspects and the drawing of adverse inferences from silence
* imposing requirements on people convicted of terrorist offences to let authorities know where they are living and any changes to their circumstances
* enhanced sentencing of offenders who commit offences with a terrorist connection
* provision for inquests and inquiries to be heard without a jury.
The Bill would also confer further powers to gather and share information for counter-terrorism and other purposes, and amend the law relating to asset-freezing procedures."
Source: UK Parliament - Parliament Home Page
In other words, remain silent and you will be assumed guilty.
The slippery slope is being greased as I type.
Regards,
Bill
sjw617
Panoramist
Bill, What does that have to do with photography? I see no mention at all.
Steve
Steve
BillP
Rangefinder General
Many of the stops of photographers have been under the guise of "counter-terrorism". Existing powers are being abused, and more are planned.
Regards,
Bill
Regards,
Bill
MartinL
MartinL
First, by "acceptance" for street photography, you're about talking about gaining a very broad cultural shift. Even with some sort of official status or credential, cameras pointed by strangers evoke deeply-set aversions. It's possible, but it would be a multi-decade project, and it's not likely to provoke the kind of groundswell needed to change attitudes.
Second, I have lots of concerns about the commodification of patriotism, terror, and so forth. These are serious and very particular phenomena, but they are appropriated by all sorts of commercial and ideological enterprises.
IMO, serious street photography is a quirky and niche occupation; it makes the photographers nervous, and that's not a disadvantage; it makes the subjects nervous, and probably should.
BillP
Rangefinder General
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.u...onds_to_photography_concerns_news_254889.html
The Boy Milliband has spoken up.
Regards,
Bill
The Boy Milliband has spoken up.
Regards,
Bill
sjw617
Panoramist
"However, decisions may be made locally to restrict photography..." which seems to give authority to local police to not follow the everything is OK to photograph attitude.
Steve
Steve
BillP
Rangefinder General
...but they cannot act in contravention of the law.
Signatures to the early day motion are now up to 180
Regards,
Bill
MickH
Well-known
FFS how difficult can it be?
"If you see someone in the street taking photographs treat them the same as you would someone walkiing their dog."
I know it's been said before, but someone obviously taking photographs is hardly likely to be engaging in terrorist activities, but those buggers with their miniature cameras disguised a mobile phones, well...
I bet if I was to walk around London talking into a huge WW2 Walkie-Talkie like what John Wayne used to use I'd be questioned by "the authorities" because I looked suspicious and might be dodgy.
Jesus H Christ!
"If you see someone in the street taking photographs treat them the same as you would someone walkiing their dog."
I know it's been said before, but someone obviously taking photographs is hardly likely to be engaging in terrorist activities, but those buggers with their miniature cameras disguised a mobile phones, well...
I bet if I was to walk around London talking into a huge WW2 Walkie-Talkie like what John Wayne used to use I'd be questioned by "the authorities" because I looked suspicious and might be dodgy.
Jesus H Christ!