Ade-oh
Well-known
Both were nice enough blokes actually. Snowdon used to live just round the corner from me (he may still do) and I would regularly see him when I took my dog for its evening 'constitutional'. He would always say hello. Last few times I saw him he was on crutches or in a wheelchair as the result of his childhood Polio which had come back to haunt him.
But I believe it was Snowdon who introduced the Queen to Leica cameras.
Ade-oh
Well-known
...but back on topic. The real solution to this issue is to follow the Austin Mitchell example and take steps to make the political climate favour photographers. Senior police officers are politicians as much as they are operational law enforcement officers and if they think the actions of their subordinates are going to make them look ridiculous, they'll take active steps to stop it. A letter writing campaign to MPs/Congressmen etc, with copies going to police commanders, pointing out that photography is an entirely lawful activity and that policemen may be breaking laws by trying to stop it would be a good start, particularly if anyone can cite real examples of policemen interfering with lawful photography.
MickH
Well-known
I dropped an email to Austin Mitchell this morning before work. Maybe he will take the time to look at our ramblings, and contribute?
Cheers.
Cheers.
BillP
Rangefinder General
UK readers:
How to contact your MP, MEP, etc:
http://www.writetothem.com/?keyword=mp&creativeid=605235279&gclid=CO-u446gq5ICFQxTQgoduVtQRA
Enter your postcode and you are taken through a series of steps to generate an emailed letter to your representative. You can write, or copy and paste, your text into the body of the "letter".
I urge as many people as possible to DO THIS. In your letter please be:
A short, pointed, well-written letter is far more likely to be read, and acted upon, than a rambling rant.
Regards,
Bill
How to contact your MP, MEP, etc:
http://www.writetothem.com/?keyword=mp&creativeid=605235279&gclid=CO-u446gq5ICFQxTQgoduVtQRA
Enter your postcode and you are taken through a series of steps to generate an emailed letter to your representative. You can write, or copy and paste, your text into the body of the "letter".
I urge as many people as possible to DO THIS. In your letter please be:
- Courteous
- Clear
- Concise
- Positive
- Express WHAT your concern is, and WHY
- Talk about what is GOOD about public photography, not about what is BAD about the police, authorities, etc.
A short, pointed, well-written letter is far more likely to be read, and acted upon, than a rambling rant.
Regards,
Bill
ernstk
Retro Renaissance
Richard
That's an excellent idea. I'm sure that we can get cover in AP.
Roger H, could you help with that?
Ernst
MickH
Well-known
Yep and I sent him the URL to this thread specifically.
Ade-oh
Well-known
Well, if photographers are being challenged by police and public for no good reason, then it should be stopped.
Tomorrow I'm going to conduct an experiment. I have an appointment in Blackfriars which should end around 10.00am, after which I plan to walk across the centre of London photographing as many 'sensitive' locations that I can easily get to (should include MI5 and MI6, Ministry of Defence, 10 Downing Street etc etc) and see if I get stopped at any stage. It might prove interesting and will be good exercise.
Ade-oh
Well-known
Actually, I'm 'current' military, although only on a part time basis these days, so I don't expect to be 'extraordinarily rendered' to Guantanamo Bay immediately. I'll go digital rather than rangefinder so that I can post my results ASAP.
BillP
Rangefinder General
Richard, good idea. I'll draft something tonight and post it up here as plain text. I see from your additions to the wheel that you have very much "got it" - want to run my next sales campaign?
Mick, I agree, a very good idea. Austin Mitchell is, as I recall, also a leading light in the parliamentary photo society. He used to be a TV presenter, so is certainly "media friendly"
Ade-Oh, that will be an interesting experiment. Let's see what happens.
Regards,
Bill
BillP
Rangefinder General
Right.
I have used the following link:
http://www.writetothem.com/?keyword=mp&creativeid=605235279&gclid=CO-u446gq5ICFQxTQgoduVtQRA
To send a letter to my MP.
The body of my letter reads as follows:
I am writing to you to express my concerns about the extent to which recent incidents and developments in the UK have contributed to a climate of suspicion directed at amateur photographers.
There have been a number of well-publicised incidents recently in which PCSOs and police officers have confronted and wrongly accused amateur photographers. Now there is a police anti-terror campaign that further seeks to call the behavior of amateur photographers into question.
Photography of people and public places is a legitimate and enjoyable pastime with a long and honourable tradition. It is legal to photograph people and public places with or without their knowledge or permission.
I am writing to you as my elected representative both to draw this to your attention and to seek your active support in the House of Commons to speak out against this creeping criminalisation of a harmless pastime.
Feel free to cut and paste, and use the same words, or a variation thereof.
Once you have hit the button, your letter is stored. You have to check the email address you have provided. They will send you a link, which you have to click on to to actually send the letter.
Regards,
Bill
I have used the following link:
http://www.writetothem.com/?keyword=mp&creativeid=605235279&gclid=CO-u446gq5ICFQxTQgoduVtQRA
To send a letter to my MP.
The body of my letter reads as follows:
I am writing to you to express my concerns about the extent to which recent incidents and developments in the UK have contributed to a climate of suspicion directed at amateur photographers.
There have been a number of well-publicised incidents recently in which PCSOs and police officers have confronted and wrongly accused amateur photographers. Now there is a police anti-terror campaign that further seeks to call the behavior of amateur photographers into question.
Photography of people and public places is a legitimate and enjoyable pastime with a long and honourable tradition. It is legal to photograph people and public places with or without their knowledge or permission.
I am writing to you as my elected representative both to draw this to your attention and to seek your active support in the House of Commons to speak out against this creeping criminalisation of a harmless pastime.
Feel free to cut and paste, and use the same words, or a variation thereof.
Once you have hit the button, your letter is stored. You have to check the email address you have provided. They will send you a link, which you have to click on to to actually send the letter.
Regards,
Bill
Ade-oh
Well-known
As I said I would, I spent a couple of hours this morning wandering around central London photographing places which might be said to be 'sensitive' in some way. This included: the Ministry of Defence; the Foreign & Commonwealth Office; the Headquarters of the London Military District (aka 'Horse Guards'); 10 Downing Street from both front and rear; the Headquarters of MI5; and the Headquarters of MI6. The only time anyone spoke to me was when a policeman apologised and stepped out of my way when I was trying to take a picture of the Ministry of Defence from across Whitehall whilst standing outside Downing Street, and he had inadvertently moved in front of me.
Of course, this was no kind of scientific 'experiment' but from what I saw, one would have to work extremely hard to draw sufficient attention to oneself to be challenged or arrested. The reality was that everywhere I went, people were taking photographs with SLRs, video cameras, point and shoots and cellphones, despite the fact that it was a miserable, cold, wet and gloomy morning.
Of course, this was no kind of scientific 'experiment' but from what I saw, one would have to work extremely hard to draw sufficient attention to oneself to be challenged or arrested. The reality was that everywhere I went, people were taking photographs with SLRs, video cameras, point and shoots and cellphones, despite the fact that it was a miserable, cold, wet and gloomy morning.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Ernst,
I'll e-mail Damien. He shouldn't need much encouraging.
Sorry it's taken so long to reply but I'd not checked the thread lately.
EDIT: E-mail sent
Cheers,
R.
Last edited:
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Thanks for the experiment. I have to add though that I have never been challenged/questioned in London (or Moscow or Delhi or Beijing or...) but I have been challenged by UK police at seaside resorts (as has Austin Mitchell) and on the banks of the Danube, in the middle of nowhere, by Romanian border police.
The truth I suspect is that the vast majority of coppers are reasonable, but you only need one paranoid twerp in uniform, or a paranoid twerp out of uniform to complain to a copper who is too easily influenced.
Only once have I encountered a cop who was hostile (in Kent), and even then, she was civil (she had little choice, as I was breaking no laws). The one in Essex to whom I said 'Tough...' as described in an earlier post left me in no doubt that she was on my side, not the side of the idiot who had complained.
Cheers,
Roger
BillP
Rangefinder General
So.
I sent my letter as shown, and today I got a response. The Rt. Hon. Andrew MacKay M.P. wrote:
"Thank you for yesterday's email which I read with a great deal of sympathy. I think you are maiking a valid point in this age of over-regulation and that is why I have been a co-sponsor of the enclosed Early Day Motion which I hope will put pressure on the Government and public bodies."
He enclosed a copy of the Austin Mitchell Early Day Motion together with a list of the 99 other MPs who signed it.
Send more.
Regards,
Bill
I sent my letter as shown, and today I got a response. The Rt. Hon. Andrew MacKay M.P. wrote:
"Thank you for yesterday's email which I read with a great deal of sympathy. I think you are maiking a valid point in this age of over-regulation and that is why I have been a co-sponsor of the enclosed Early Day Motion which I hope will put pressure on the Government and public bodies."
He enclosed a copy of the Austin Mitchell Early Day Motion together with a list of the 99 other MPs who signed it.
Send more.
Regards,
Bill
ernstk
Retro Renaissance
BillP
Rangefinder General
Hansard Online: 18 Feb 2008
Public Order Offences: Photography
Mrs. Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will issue guidance to police forces on steps which may be taken against persons taking photographs in public places.
Mr. McNulty: The police may remove persons from public areas, prevent filming or confiscate equipment where they are responding to an offence or where they suspect an offence is about to happen in order to prevent it from being committed. They may also take action to prevent a breach of the peace. In such cases the police may require a person to leave a place or prevent them from entering a public area where their presence is likely to cause a breach of the peace. Police tactics and decisions on how to achieve these objectives are a matter for the independent judgment of chief officers of police.
So that is the official line from the Home Office...
Regards,
Bill
Public Order Offences: Photography
Mrs. Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will issue guidance to police forces on steps which may be taken against persons taking photographs in public places.
Mr. McNulty: The police may remove persons from public areas, prevent filming or confiscate equipment where they are responding to an offence or where they suspect an offence is about to happen in order to prevent it from being committed. They may also take action to prevent a breach of the peace. In such cases the police may require a person to leave a place or prevent them from entering a public area where their presence is likely to cause a breach of the peace. Police tactics and decisions on how to achieve these objectives are a matter for the independent judgment of chief officers of police.
So that is the official line from the Home Office...
Regards,
Bill
BillP
Rangefinder General
Exactly.
Anybody seen "Minority Report"...?
BTW, I have tonight written to Boris Johnson, Conservative candidate for Mayor of London, here: http://www.backboris.com/contact.php
I used a variation of my original MP letter, going further by pointing out the potential impact on the millions of pounds of tourist money that the capital receives every year.
Regards,
Bill
BillP
Rangefinder General
Thank you Richard. Every one helps
Regards,
Bill
Regards,
Bill