Is a Blackstone Exit Best for Leica ?

[Daniel Teoli Jr.]

Stephen, the problem is most (all?) camera manufactures are also in trouble. Sony overall is in very bad shape. Nikon's sales are plummeting. How long will it be until all point and shot cameras are replaced by cell phones? I'm not sure there is a camera manufacturer with earnings big enough to be a helpful partner. Is Panasonic willing to sacrifice earnings to help Leica?

Yes, good rundown of the current state of affairs for the industry.

They have to do cameras like we have to do photos...for love and not for $....HA!

 

[Roger Hicks]

Only the #1 and #2 economies in the world.

Dear Colin,

Clearly a flawed business model. Where are their Albanian and Welsh sales? And of course Vincenzo has discussed all this with Dr. Kaufmann...

Cheers,

R.

 

[Daniel Teoli Jr.]

Product lines....

If Leica was to begin actually producing lenses for other mounts, it sure seems they could find some great footing there.
As an outsider looking in, their problems all seem to come from the camera side.
Licensing to Panasonic is fine but, actually producing high end lenses for other mounts in that big new factory could really be good.

Panasonic is probably a much better fit than BS. They create products to produce their revenue. It just makes sense.
Leica needs help with their tech. Partnering with a tech giant with avested interest provides that help.

I think it would be more like they rent their name to lens makers. Leica is not know for hi tech lenses is it? (Other than great IQ and manual lenses.)

 

[Daniel Teoli Jr.]

Stephen, what camera maker would you like to see be the partner?

Fuji as a partner.

Fuji sensor, Leica impeccable simplistic design, Fuji plastic body, $1500 or $2500 for brass.

 

[Daniel Teoli Jr.]

Voigtlander should get in with Leica.

Mr. Kaufman and Mr. Kobayashi together would be a brilliant tag team 😉

I hade trouble with my Bessa cam. Fuji is a better choice. Although still have 2 RD1's and they held up fine. Both companies had rangefinder experience anyway.

 

[Daniel Teoli Jr.]

ANY camera manufacturer would likely be a better long term Leica fit than Blackstone.

That said, Panasonic is probably the most logical given their long and successful relationship with Leica.
Whether or not that deal could be made, who knows.

Leica does not always does not always take the most logical or profitable route. Over a decade ago I talked with top Leica management about producing R lenses in Nikon F mount. It would have kept the R lens lineup in production and became a major profit source. You all know how many Leica lenses in Nikon F mount were sold.

Stephen

If they are not enthused about the project they wont budge. I've hounded Fuji for ages to build a rangefinder. It would not be hard. They had plenty of rangefinder experience.

Leica is know for high $ manual lenses with high IQ. Nikon devotees are camera fondlers and not into manual lenses.

 

[Daniel Teoli Jr.]

Thank you, Andy for typing what I was too timid to type.
I am not a Leica follower, but it seems to me for a long time now, L should do what they do best - lenses for other camera mounts.

I don't see it at the prices Leica likes to get.

Zeiss is my choice mostly. I like the friction controls better on Zeiss than Leica. Leica lenses are like Fuji lenses. You have to use gaffers tape on the aperture ring to keep it from wandering on doc / street work. Leica is not known for high tech electric auto lenses like are being produced now. Maybe Leica can make them, but why would anyone want to pay triple or quadruple for it?

OK, I'm pay double of hat a rangefinder should cost to get the Leica. But it is the only game in town with a shutter speed dial and rangefinder. But that is the only reason shoot Leica. If I had a Japanese rangefinder option for a lot less I'd go that route.

 

[fireblade]

Only the #2 and #1 economies in the world.

fixed 😉

Dear Colin,
Clearly a flawed business model. Where are their Albanian and Welsh sales? And of course Vincenzo has discussed all this with Dr. Kaufmann...Cheers,
R.

Albanians are peasants and the Welsh are goat herders, neither need cameras.
...well, as for Kaufmann, should have stuck to Pedagogy....and we know that teachers have wonderful PR skills 🙄

 

[Daniel Teoli Jr.]

I didn't know that. A considerable sum even if it's tiny percentage of Blackstone's total investments.

I'd rather see an entity already in the camera business replace Blackstone. Is Panasonic ready to make the leap into a FF 35mm digital?

FF 35mm digital rangefinder

 

[jaapv]

If Dr. Kaufmann had stuck to pedagogy, Leica would not have survived 2007...🙄

 

[jaapv]

The business model is flawed, they had to sell 3,500 MM to recoup their money on that R&D/build...they sold 3 times that amount, but then open the new Portugal factory at a cost of 65 million Euro, but here is the cherry...Kaufmann funds the build, Leica then pay him rent....and Blackstone allow this?
The one year Leica turn a profit, Blackstone want in..bad decision as we now see.
Further, 90% of Leica sales are in the USA and China....too many eggs in the one basket.
....anyways, there is always another sucker waiting in line with a wad of money to spend....a Japanese camera firm?..maybe, but their negotiations will be hard, shrewd and to suit them...time.

Facts? I suggest that you check before posting...
The new factory in Portugal was operational at the introduction of the Monochrom, well before Blackstone was in the picture, The USA market is approximately the same percentage as the German one (15-20%)The rest of Europe about 10 %, according to the last published figures. Rest of the world and Asia are not relevant, as they have shifted since then.

 

[lynnb]

Maybe Leica should start wooing Apple. Nothing like a rich boyfriend. Leica were the forefront of innovation, creating compact quality cameras that liberated and revolutionised photography. The iPhone is doing the same now. If Apple could be convinced that it's cool to have a finger in the quality end of the market for their equivalent of small change, that might help Leica avoid the catastrophe that is engulfing the digital camera market.

 

[Doug]

^^ +1 ^^ Apple & Leica have some culture in common, such as easy interfaces, top-of-the-market, and the price is what it is! 🙂

 

[uhoh7]

300 Mil will buy you a decent ski resort or ten fancy condos in manhattan. The Blackstone buy in did not even make wikipedia. They don't have a controlling interest. They don't own many similar businesses, that I could make out.

Bottomline: they were a big help for Leica in tough times. A bird in the hand might be better than panasonic in a bush.

I agree Leica could make lenses for other cameras. They could easily sell 10 times the number of bodies they do now, if the product was smaller and cheaper, and that would not hurt native lens sales, which are soft.

But maybe Stephen is right about them not getting over what the CL did to the M5 LOL.

Apple is another bird in the bush, who knows what they would do? We might not like it.

 

[f16sunshine]

Apple would be cool but the board would not let it happen. Not enough to satisfy shareholders.... Maybe as a little pet?
It would be a cute little fling for apple. Not a serious girlfriend to bring home to mom and dad 😉

 

[semilog]

ANY camera manufacturer would likely be a better long term Leica fit than Blackstone.

I'd phrase it a bit differently. ANY investor would likely be a better fit for a sustainable, highly-skilled, craft-driven enterprise than Blackstone.

 

[willie_901]

It's been about 8 1/2 years since the M8 was introduced. It took that long for the marketing strategy of implying Leica M film camera excellence automatically translates completely to Leica M digital camera excellence to become ineffective.

Of course optics excellence is a completely different matter.

At any rate, leveraging the M film camera engineering and mechanical superiority to sell digital cameras served Leica well. Good for them. It would be wasteful to have done otherwise.

Unfortunately there didn't seem to be resources or the will to modernize the M digital camera data stream. The recent defective M9 sensor replacement debacle and other reliability issues accelerated the ineffectiveness of leveraging mechanical M body excellence as a marketing tool.

At the same time, stagnation in global digital camera sales (just look at Nikon's 3 yr stock chart) combined with the slow, yet inevitable realization by consumers that Leica makes a mediocre digital body (with a well-engineered optical rangefinder) is a devastating combination. The M240 is too little too late (mostly too late as the M240 data stream is currently competitive). Where is the monochrome CMOS sensor camera? Where is the ME CMOS sensor camera? Instead we are offered the pretentious Kravitz model.

The fact is Leica's business model requires digital M cameras to be purely value-added products while their competition's products are essentially commodities. For instance, all current DSLRs and mirror-less bodies offered by Leica's competitors provide essentially identical price😛erformance ratios. When you pay extra for a Leica M, you buy features that are unavailable on other brands - namely a mechanical optical rangefinder focusing system and a lens mount/sensor system compatible with M/LTM optics. While the former remains unique, the latter has become feasible with other brands. You also pay extra for design and engineering excellence which was most recently undermined by M9 sensor defect embarrassment. It seems we are now at the point where the competitive advantage of Leica's value-added features has diminished.

A crisis often creates authentic opportunities. A financial partnership with Panasonic or another large imaging corporation with deep pockets and and extensive excellence in digital electronics engineering could ensure the Leica brand continues for decades. New competitive Leica products could eventually subsidize the availability of the traditional, beloved M body form. At least that is the outcome I prefer.

Beginning with the M8's arrival, I could afford a new digital M body. I look forward a time when I can judge the M digital body to be a competitive, value-added purchase. The money is in the bank waiting to be spent.

 

[Colin Corneau]

Maybe Leica should start wooing Apple. Nothing like a rich boyfriend. Leica were the forefront of innovation, creating compact quality cameras that liberated and revolutionised photography. The iPhone is doing the same now. If Apple could be convinced that it's cool to have a finger in the quality end of the market for their equivalent of small change, that might help Leica avoid the catastrophe that is engulfing the digital camera market.

http://petapixel.com/2013/11/24/one-kind-jony-ive-red-leica-m-sells-whopping-1-8m-charity-auction/

Couldn't resist 🙂

 

[fireblade]

Facts? I suggest that you check before posting...
The new factory in Portugal was operational at the introduction of the Monochrom, well before Blackstone was in the picture.....

2013.... http://lavidaleica.com/content/leica-inaugurates-portugal-factory

 

[FrozenInTime]

This all seems like a lot of doom and gloom - is it really that bad ?