Bully
Established
When I read in the news that Sony introduced their new full format sensor technology I wonder when a Zeiss Ikon FF will be ready?
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Is a Zeiss Ikon FF ready to start?
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dazedgonebye
Veteran
It ain't that easy, as Leica can tell you.
What works as full frame on a DSLR, won't cut it in a rangefinder.
Don't hold your breath.
What works as full frame on a DSLR, won't cut it in a rangefinder.
Don't hold your breath.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
Who knows? I'd expect to see it sometime after the Nikon and Sony DSLRs using the Sony chip. 2010 maybe? Now, since I've seen predictions of sub $1,000 FF DSLRs, can we expect maybe a $1,500 Digital Ikon?
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
I'd predict you'll see this sometime after pigs fly, but before Hell freezes over.
I don't think there's any advantage to Carl Zeiss in offering this type of product. And since Carl Zeiss licenses its name for the lenses used on several high-end digicams, there might be disadvantages in risking their ire by going into competition with them in the digicam business.
Also, there's no lower-cost contract manufacturer to make such a camera for them the way Cosina makes the Zeiss Ikon film RF.
I don't think there's any advantage to Carl Zeiss in offering this type of product. And since Carl Zeiss licenses its name for the lenses used on several high-end digicams, there might be disadvantages in risking their ire by going into competition with them in the digicam business.
Also, there's no lower-cost contract manufacturer to make such a camera for them the way Cosina makes the Zeiss Ikon film RF.
gavinlg
Veteran
Well.... I think they will do it, at least at some point. Cosina made the epson r-d1, they can make the ziD. A full frame rangefinder offers heaps to market, as it would be the only one. Plus it would be cheaper than the m8. I'd buy it.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
fdigital said:
Ahh ... but after we get it will we all be clamoring for the cropped sensor downgrade with reduced shutter speed? :angel:
italy74
Well-known
Guess what? they could even design a LARGER than FF sensor to pair better with wide angle lenses. Who knows?
RF-Addict
Well-known
If I were Cosina/Voigtlaender, I would work hard on getting a FF digital RF on the market - given their track record for reasonably priced RF equipment, they could really sweap up the market, even if Leica releases a M9 FF camera in the not too distant future. It is hard to imagine that Cosina would not realize that in the long-term, a film camera-only business model cannot succeed.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I think that Cosina or anyone else for that matter have a huge advantage over Leica in getting a full frame sensor into a rangefinder if they choose to. Leica have admitted that in keeping their camera in line with previous M dimensions it made it virtually impossible to have sufficient distance between the lens mount and the focal plane to have an IR filter in front of the sensor let alone a full frame. Cosina would not be constrained by this foolishness and would make the body to suit the sensor's needs ... not tradition's! 😛
Toby
On the alert
Keith said:
The size of their body is constained in the same way otherwise the lenses wouldn't focus at infinity. CV or Zeiss would have to completely redesign their lenses to accomodate the necessary dimensions needed to make current FF sensors work properly.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Toby said:
That's a shame ... I wonder if they would be prepared to design new lenses ... it seems unlikely. I guess we just have to wait for appropriate sensor technology!
Paul T.
Veteran
Toby said:
My understanding is that Zeiss WA lenses might not present the problems thrown up by some other lenses, essentially because they;re physically bigger, and the light will therefore not leave the final element at such an oblique angle.
Toby
On the alert
Paul T. said:
That's certainly true, and I'm sure I read somewhere that zeiss designed its lenses with digital in mind. But the gap betwee the lens mount and the film plane is still very small compared to an EOS or the olympus 4/3 mount - which is the only digital optimised SLR mount. What a digital RF would really need is a far thinner sensor to prevent light fall off at the edges.
Tuolumne
Veteran
If Zeiss brought one out with a 1.33x crop factor (same as Leica M8), for half the price of an M8, don't tell me that everyone here wouldn't be all over it like white on rice. We can learn to live with a crop factor. How can you live at all with a camera that doesn't and might never exist (full frame RF).
/T
/T
kshapero
South Florida Man
Leica to develop full-frame digital rangefinder camera
Read in Amateur photography magazine
Read in Amateur photography magazine
Krosya
Konicaze
Even while no longer made, Epson RD1 still sells. So if someone, be that Zeiss, Cosina , Nikon, etc., would make a camera that is between M8 and RD1 in specs and price, even without a FF sensor, it would sell great! Let's say Zeiss Ikon based Digital RF, sort of like Bessa based Epson, at $ 1500-2000 with current support/warranty. I'd be interested.
georgef
Well-known
Krosya said:
I agree! I would be very interested in a sigma SD14-like sensor into an RF body.
My understanding of the FF RF issue is the incident angle of light to the edges of the sensor. andI amnot a digital camera engineer by any mans, but what if the sensor had a full fixed lens in front of it directing the light into a straight drop onto the sensor? sort of like a prism (for lack of better terminology on my part LOL) A bit of light may be lost, but would that not seem like a direction to explore? I know there may be a few LEICa engineers who, reading this, may be saying "...yeah, that was our unacceptable solution #12..."...
😀
aizan
Veteran
i think the solution will be a new microlens array, with software taking up the rest.
Tuolumne
Veteran
sitemistic said:
SM,
As if a rangefinder camera itself isn't already on the trailing edge of technology!
/T
Jason Sprenger
Well-known
I believe when everything needed for a great camera is available off the shelf and when Zeiss and/or Cosina can bring it in for about half of the Leica, then I think we'll see such a camera.
With the Sony sensor, the big hurdle to my mind is that neither Cosina nor Zeiss is much involved with digital imaging.
As we've seen both Zeiss and Cosina use partnerships to advance their products into new directions and generally take conservative and cautious steps when moving on their own.
So... does Epson still want to play? Would Sony or Nikon be interested? Or is the handwriting already on the wall and is the question really, does Cosina or Zeiss have the means and the will to develop and assemble digital cameras themselves using Sony sensors?
With the Sony sensor, the big hurdle to my mind is that neither Cosina nor Zeiss is much involved with digital imaging.
As we've seen both Zeiss and Cosina use partnerships to advance their products into new directions and generally take conservative and cautious steps when moving on their own.
So... does Epson still want to play? Would Sony or Nikon be interested? Or is the handwriting already on the wall and is the question really, does Cosina or Zeiss have the means and the will to develop and assemble digital cameras themselves using Sony sensors?
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