hmm. maybe.
see http://petapixel.com/2013/04/26/pho...ebay-account-selling-copyrighted-photographs/
Stephen
see http://petapixel.com/2013/04/26/pho...ebay-account-selling-copyrighted-photographs/
Stephen
Is Ebay Allowing Sale of Copyrighted Pics without Photog's Permission ?
- Thread starter CameraQuest
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jsrockit
Moderator
Whatever happens on the street, happens on the internet. 🙂
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
It's worse than you might think... Just click on the image in the listing and you can download what is probably the file he is printing from. Most images are around 1200x1600 pixels. Although I might want more, these will make reasonable 8x10s.
Where is he getting these? Makes me think never to post any image larger than screen resolution, say 800 pixels.
Where is he getting these? Makes me think never to post any image larger than screen resolution, say 800 pixels.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
It's a junction of a "who cares?!"-ist selling to a "who cares!"-ist buyer. Furthermore, eBay seems to be another one of those "who cares?!" crowd; like it's been stated, as long as they get a cut and show like they sort of care, legally they may be able to get away with it. Hopefully it will be enough change to pay the eventual litigation. If one of the photographers has the time and energy to pursue that uphill battle.
jsrockit
Moderator
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
In this case, the eBay seller is charging $2.99 for an 8x10 print plus $4.00 for shipping from Russell, Kentucky, US.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
I used the image-search site TinEye.com on several of the eBay seller's images. In the half-dozen cases I tried, I was not able to find anything larger than 600 pixels. So, his source is not easy to find.
Thanks for the comments about sneak-copies in the labs. I've certainly heard of operators keeping a bulletin board of nice images, but never of selling them outright.
pdexposures
Well-known
If you notify them they will take it down. The firm I work for had a client who manufactures product that can only be sold through authorized dealers. An unauthorized one was using eBay to sell knockoff versions of said product while using our imagery, branding and copy.
A quick e-mail to eBay got all 50 listings taken down almost immediately. And when they popped back up a few days later, another quick e-mail got them taken down again. We haven't had any problems since.
A quick e-mail to eBay got all 50 listings taken down almost immediately. And when they popped back up a few days later, another quick e-mail got them taken down again. We haven't had any problems since.
x-ray
Veteran
I'm dealing with almost exactly the same issue with ebay. I troll the internet looking for copyright infringement of my images and find several a week. Most folks are good and don't understand copyright law and take them down. Others need a little pain to get their attention.
Examples of infringement, I found a student at the Chicago Art Institute copying and reproducing my x-ray art. She was also copying Disney and other trade marked art.
I find numerous uses of my documentary images of Popcorn Sutton being used on playing cards, T shirts, sweat shirts, greeting cards, Christmas ornaments and etc. I've found people in England, Norway, Italy and other locations around the world. Most of the sites like Zazzle will gladly take them down.
I've even found a couple of professional musicians using them in music videos. One I almost had to take to court over the use.
Two weeks ago I ran across a seller who sells thousands of images on Ebay. In the Popcorn Sutton listings was two of my images of which one contained my picture. (another story). I emailed the seller and told him to remove them or else and he did. I also have a policy of charging a royalty fee if I catch them using them commercially and if they know the law. this person did know the law and even put his own water mark on MY IMAGES. He said he put the water mark on them to keep people from steeling them. DuuuuH, what do you think you did. Anyway the seller refuses to pay up and I decided I'm going to bust him. In his sale he brags about the number of satisfied customers and how many images he sells. Time to pay up folks! I spent three years on this project and thousands of dollars and don't like people taking my work and selling it.
I decided it's time to inflict some pain on this company / guy. I do have a phone number to the company but need a name. I thought the easiest way would be to get it from ebay. NO SUCH LUCK!!! After a week + truing to get it and filling out form after form and waiting for responses and even providing two copyright registration numbers they tell me I have to subpoena ebay for the information. They no longer give that information out. No problem, a subpoena is no big deal but I need a persons name and physical address of where to deliver the papers. HAAHHH!!! it's not that easy. Ebay hides behind their phone system. No one will give me a name or an address where a person would be to deliver the papers. No name, no address no subpoena. All the phone systems are automated and there's no way to get in even dialing 0. the customer support people will not provide or can not provide a number for the legal department.
Next step, I ordered a print from the seller to get a physical address from the return label. since I have the phone number I'm going to run a reverse phone directory and get the name or the owner.
This time I'm not only going to inflict pain I'm going to bring blood. I have an intellectual property attorney working for me. From talking to her it's my understanding if we send a demand letter and it's not fulfilled we then file a federal suit. The seller will have to travel to the court in Tennessee from Ohio. I have the registration certificates with the copyright office and print outs of his auctions. Basically an open and shut case and he has to pay all court and legal fees plus damages. I've filed to other suits and won so no big deal.
It's time for all of us to stop these guys. Just taking it down from the internet isn't enough if they're making money from them. Don't be afraid of busting them. The catch is if you haven't registered the images with the copyright office you can not collect damages but can only stop their use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ticked at the person using my images as avitars but I am ticked at those selling them.
I know it can never be totally stopped but we do have the power to bring blood. Register your images!
PS- The photo they were selling that I am in, I don't believe this one has ever been published except on my book back cover and it was cropped. The only other place this image has been in the public eye is in the touring exhibition that is going to museums. I suspect this person took a camera to one of the museums and directly shot a picture off my images.
Examples of infringement, I found a student at the Chicago Art Institute copying and reproducing my x-ray art. She was also copying Disney and other trade marked art.
I find numerous uses of my documentary images of Popcorn Sutton being used on playing cards, T shirts, sweat shirts, greeting cards, Christmas ornaments and etc. I've found people in England, Norway, Italy and other locations around the world. Most of the sites like Zazzle will gladly take them down.
I've even found a couple of professional musicians using them in music videos. One I almost had to take to court over the use.
Two weeks ago I ran across a seller who sells thousands of images on Ebay. In the Popcorn Sutton listings was two of my images of which one contained my picture. (another story). I emailed the seller and told him to remove them or else and he did. I also have a policy of charging a royalty fee if I catch them using them commercially and if they know the law. this person did know the law and even put his own water mark on MY IMAGES. He said he put the water mark on them to keep people from steeling them. DuuuuH, what do you think you did. Anyway the seller refuses to pay up and I decided I'm going to bust him. In his sale he brags about the number of satisfied customers and how many images he sells. Time to pay up folks! I spent three years on this project and thousands of dollars and don't like people taking my work and selling it.
I decided it's time to inflict some pain on this company / guy. I do have a phone number to the company but need a name. I thought the easiest way would be to get it from ebay. NO SUCH LUCK!!! After a week + truing to get it and filling out form after form and waiting for responses and even providing two copyright registration numbers they tell me I have to subpoena ebay for the information. They no longer give that information out. No problem, a subpoena is no big deal but I need a persons name and physical address of where to deliver the papers. HAAHHH!!! it's not that easy. Ebay hides behind their phone system. No one will give me a name or an address where a person would be to deliver the papers. No name, no address no subpoena. All the phone systems are automated and there's no way to get in even dialing 0. the customer support people will not provide or can not provide a number for the legal department.
Next step, I ordered a print from the seller to get a physical address from the return label. since I have the phone number I'm going to run a reverse phone directory and get the name or the owner.
This time I'm not only going to inflict pain I'm going to bring blood. I have an intellectual property attorney working for me. From talking to her it's my understanding if we send a demand letter and it's not fulfilled we then file a federal suit. The seller will have to travel to the court in Tennessee from Ohio. I have the registration certificates with the copyright office and print outs of his auctions. Basically an open and shut case and he has to pay all court and legal fees plus damages. I've filed to other suits and won so no big deal.
It's time for all of us to stop these guys. Just taking it down from the internet isn't enough if they're making money from them. Don't be afraid of busting them. The catch is if you haven't registered the images with the copyright office you can not collect damages but can only stop their use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ticked at the person using my images as avitars but I am ticked at those selling them.
I know it can never be totally stopped but we do have the power to bring blood. Register your images!
PS- The photo they were selling that I am in, I don't believe this one has ever been published except on my book back cover and it was cropped. The only other place this image has been in the public eye is in the touring exhibition that is going to museums. I suspect this person took a camera to one of the museums and directly shot a picture off my images.
CliveC
Well-known
Bravo sir! Let us know of your progress.
alienmeatsack
Well-known
I've had my illustration work stolen before and sold on eBay. There is one company on there in Australia who's been ripping off my scooter club work for several years. I complain to them and eBay, they remove the image and replace it with another that is similar but slightly different, lather rinse and repeat.
I have been pondering the big ugly watermark thing for a while now and as more and more of my work end up out there on public sites like tumblr as I post, I am getting concerned that stuff will be stolen and it will make me just not post images ever.
Many years ago, I had my work along with several others stolen from private AOL forums by Chinese hackers to use on pogs of all things. We got together as a group and tried to take action and were basically told to f ourselves.
So how does one protect your images? Watermarks are ugly and can be easily edited or cropped out. Suggestions?
And to x-ray, go get em!!! I hope you kick their butt, for all of us!
I have been pondering the big ugly watermark thing for a while now and as more and more of my work end up out there on public sites like tumblr as I post, I am getting concerned that stuff will be stolen and it will make me just not post images ever.
Many years ago, I had my work along with several others stolen from private AOL forums by Chinese hackers to use on pogs of all things. We got together as a group and tried to take action and were basically told to f ourselves.
So how does one protect your images? Watermarks are ugly and can be easily edited or cropped out. Suggestions?
And to x-ray, go get em!!! I hope you kick their butt, for all of us!
Peter de Waal
Established
Include eBay!
Include eBay!
In response to x-ray @ #11.
I would definitely include eBay as a counter-party to your case against this image thief. Big corporations take litigation seriously. If it looks like it's going to affect the profitability of their business model, they will change their policies.
Otherwise it's like fighting a brush fire. You put out one spot, only for two or three more to flare up.
Large corporations are hard work, but in your case it sounds like the facts support your claims and you have diligently documented the evidence of criminal activity. I imagine eBay will come to an arrangement, rather than be found guilty of aiding or abetting a criminal act. It would help everybody to limit the actions of these image-floggers. Photography is really under assault at the moment, so removing an easy method of profiting from other's work would be helpful to all of us.
I successfully took-on New Zealand's government insurance organisation 'ACC', which recently had to pay me a large sum for their violation of my privacy rights. It took 4 years, but it was very satisfying to defeat such "...willful, unreasonable and unlawful actions..", plus it now forms a precedent that changes the way such organisations treat the public.
Include eBay!
In response to x-ray @ #11.
I would definitely include eBay as a counter-party to your case against this image thief. Big corporations take litigation seriously. If it looks like it's going to affect the profitability of their business model, they will change their policies.
Otherwise it's like fighting a brush fire. You put out one spot, only for two or three more to flare up.
Large corporations are hard work, but in your case it sounds like the facts support your claims and you have diligently documented the evidence of criminal activity. I imagine eBay will come to an arrangement, rather than be found guilty of aiding or abetting a criminal act. It would help everybody to limit the actions of these image-floggers. Photography is really under assault at the moment, so removing an easy method of profiting from other's work would be helpful to all of us.
I successfully took-on New Zealand's government insurance organisation 'ACC', which recently had to pay me a large sum for their violation of my privacy rights. It took 4 years, but it was very satisfying to defeat such "...willful, unreasonable and unlawful actions..", plus it now forms a precedent that changes the way such organisations treat the public.
mrb
Established
Regarding the difficulty of serving Ebay; it took me less than a minute to find their registered agent's address on the California Secretary of State's website. That's who you serve; don't waste time on the phone.
kuzano
Veteran
Very likely YES to answer your question....
Very likely YES to answer your question....
Other ways to ask the same question:
If you place an ad in your local newspaper to sell an image copyrighted to someone else, is your local newspaper responsible in any way for copyright violation. Hmmmm, perhaps if you notify them and follow with legal action.
How about Craigslist?
How about posting a sale notice on any bulletin board in any store having such a bulletin board,
How about a notice on a telephone pole.
Do you contact the city, or the telephone company who owns the telephone pole.
You may have a case somewhere, but you have to pursue the perpetrator, and eBay is not the perpetrator.
Now, let me say I do not really legally know the answer to the question, but I doubt, other than eBays restrictions on counterfeit, the only thing they can do is take down the listings and/or punish the listing seller with account closure.
It's simply a sales venue. Not an enforcement agency.
My thoughts on the question without pursuit of a legal answer.
Very likely YES to answer your question....
Other ways to ask the same question:
If you place an ad in your local newspaper to sell an image copyrighted to someone else, is your local newspaper responsible in any way for copyright violation. Hmmmm, perhaps if you notify them and follow with legal action.
How about Craigslist?
How about posting a sale notice on any bulletin board in any store having such a bulletin board,
How about a notice on a telephone pole.
Do you contact the city, or the telephone company who owns the telephone pole.
You may have a case somewhere, but you have to pursue the perpetrator, and eBay is not the perpetrator.
Now, let me say I do not really legally know the answer to the question, but I doubt, other than eBays restrictions on counterfeit, the only thing they can do is take down the listings and/or punish the listing seller with account closure.
It's simply a sales venue. Not an enforcement agency.
My thoughts on the question without pursuit of a legal answer.
Peter de Waal
Established
eBay may be "just a sales venue", but regardless of that limitation the corporation's flawed policies or inadequate copyright enforcement allows eBay to profit from a user's criminal act. It is clear that eBay is negligent, therefore the corporation is "joint and severally liable" and has a case to answer.
Go ahead and file. Let the Courts sort this issue out.
Go ahead and file. Let the Courts sort this issue out.
Aristophanes
Well-known
eBay takes a cut from the sale and value. It's not just a fee for service. If they just charged 99c per listing it would not be so much of an issue. By taking a cut of the marketed value, they may encourage unethical behaviour by encouraging the unscrupulous. eBay therefore has an incentive to "look the other way" so long as values are driven up by whatever means. Of course driving values up is the point of auction systems.
Also, eBay has itself a copy of the copyrighted file as part of the sales display. This could be construed as facilitation through proxy.
The law has not been fully tested here. Deep pockets, the ubiquity of digital copies, and lack of cross-border jurisdiction makes enforcing traditional copyright expensive and problematic.
Aristophanes
Well-known
This is civil, not criminal. To be felony copyright the Feds have to prosecute, not the copyright holder. Many jurisdictions do not prosecute copyright infringement because of limited resources and higher priorities. The bar to prove criminal conduct is very high. Willful copyright infringement is a civil process.
Usually the problem is not the filing or even getting no-show default judgement. It's the cost in legal and court fees and the often impossible task to get paid by a faraway defendant for even these plus damages. If they are overseas, you have almost no chance.
x-ray
Veteran
Aristophanes
Well-known
It is not clear the images Chun uses were stolen. They were appropriated and transformed. Not enough initially with the race car, but then re-done shortly thereafter, apparently (anecdotal) with the permission of the original photographer.
It is not a violation of either civil or criminal copyright to take any image and alter it with new meaning that a reasonable person MIGHT interpret as transformational. The Richard Prince court case was unequivocal on that point. The Kickstarter images have $65,000 worth of reasonable people ponying up. Personally I think Chun's images show a minimal amount of alteration, but she does universally "blackprint" them as a standardized aesthetic. What is and is not acceptable use (or re-use) is difficult to say. One person's minimal is another person's reasonable. Someone else might find it objectionable.
We should just be cautious about using the word "stolen". Images that are direct resale copes on eBay are copyright violations. Images "reimagined" through some form of transformative mechanism are not copyright violations according to the US Court of Appeals (and other courts in other countries).
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I don't know what use this is but the versions of my pictures I put up are small and so not worth copying (I hope).
Someone told me that map makers put small errors in their maps so the edition etc can be traced and it would be proved that it wasn't original work as no two people could make the same silly mistake over something that wasn't there in reality.
Regards, David
I don't know what use this is but the versions of my pictures I put up are small and so not worth copying (I hope).
Someone told me that map makers put small errors in their maps so the edition etc can be traced and it would be proved that it wasn't original work as no two people could make the same silly mistake over something that wasn't there in reality.
Regards, David
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