Is it just me or do digital "photographers" complain a lot?

N.delaRua said:
To me, the larger the format, the more limits present.

Its just as that negative gets bigger you need more and more DOF so slower and slower apertures and are often stuck with leaf shutters that are great in the studio but maybe to slow other wise.

Those are all limits, and I would love to have an 8X10 film camera and slow down that much. It would be a great weekend....
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With most view cameras the standards are movable. Plane of focus and DoF are controlled to a greater extent than with standard fixed plane cameras. Digital backs like Phase One are commonly fixed to monorail cameras to take advantage of the view camera's movements. So, you get MORE not less control with most large format cameras. That's why they are still in use and why shift lenses (only front standard control) are made for DSLR cameras.

You might want to do some reading on the subject. It's much more than film size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheimpflug_principle

http://www.phaseone.com/search/article.aspx?articleid=2228&languageid=1
 
"The greatest type of camera ever made..." Hummm. Is that written down in stone somewhere? Or do you think maybe every photographer makes his/her own decision when picking up a camera and using it? We are having weird sunsets out her in the desert (big forest fire nearby) and I have been taking photos at sunset with a Bilora Bella 66 120-size film camera. There are two f stops two shutter speeds (and "B") and you have to set the focus on a scale (no rangefinder). It's not the very best type of camera ever made but I like it. Last week I was using a Yashica J rangefinder. By the way I think analog photographers whine a lot. On the other hand, a lot of all-digital types tend to be defensive about digital vs. film. I do not know why.
 
bad photogs complain about or compare their equipment. Then they buy what they think is better.

Good photogs make images.

Nikon comes out with a new camera, they grab a half dozen models, make up artists, a lighting crew and go on location. They flaunt the great pic they made and show off the image. Everyone thinks jf they buy that camera, images like that shown will be theirs. Sadly they get the same junk they got before.

There comes a point where the camera is good enough to make the largest print they want to make. We are long past that . But they still drink the cool aid.
 
I think so, I never been happy with any of the digital cameras I had but the only
cameras I've been truly happy with was the Leica's I've had and my Nikon
S3 I have now. Digital they put so much stuff in the cameras
that something gets in the way.

Range
 
Generally speaking, the framing device is the most important part of a camera and most cameras have that in common. Digital and Film are both great. Great images have been made in both mediums and anyone who truly loves photography should be able to appreciate both.

Film has a great history that is easy to embrace... it was done well for a long time. Digital needs time for its history to sort out before most will appreciate it.

I really think many here think film is the "cool" choice and that those who use digital couldn't possibly be making anything worth looking at. However, many of us who prefer digital these days used film for many, many years. It's not new or different to many of us.

Now, with regard to digital cameras, I'm never using any controls that aren't on most film cameras. I use the shutter speed dial, the aperture ring, the focus ring, and the shutter button. I don't understand why people think this is not possible with digital cameras.
 
Ronald M said:
bad photogs complain about or compare their equipment. Then they buy what they think is better.

Good photogs make images.

Nikon comes out with a new camera, they grab a half dozen models, make up artists, a lighting crew and go on location. They flaunt the great pic they made and show off the image. Everyone thinks jf they buy that camera, images like that shown will be theirs. Sadly they get the same junk they got before.

There comes a point where the camera is good enough to make the largest print they want to make. We are long past that . But they still drink the cool aid.
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All very true, though if the marketing didn't work the camera cos would find another path to selling "talent" in the owning the latest camera. I see many folks very upset to find that popular "pro images" were not made with "pro cameras". But, they quickly forget and follow the marketing people.

One of the camera companies got into a bit of trouble when some brand fans found the images in the Ads weren't made with the fancy new camera.
 
N.delaRua said:
Lol its too easy to complain. Sorry, i don't want to complain. I think their is bias in my sample size because I am interested in the Fuji X series, and there is so much complaining out there about everything. When I held the system and played with it the store , I thought this thing is better me in every way... What would I complain about?
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If you have nothing to complain about, why ask why others are complaining? Just enjoy what you have and be happy.

G
 
N.delaRua: i couldn't agree more. digital photographers have it easy,
hence they complain more. film photographers are a dying breed,
no need to complain, as nobody listens anyway.
 
N.delaRua said:
Lol its too easy to complain. Sorry, i don't want to complain. I think their is bias in my sample size because I am interested in the Fuji X series, and there is so much complaining out there about everything. When I held the system and played with it the store , I thought this thing is better me in every way... What would I complain about?
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I have a Fuji XPro 1 which i use exclusively with my 6 Leica M lenses ranging from 28-135. The camera is set to aperture preferred auto just as i would with an M7. When i need to, i change my ISO. I look through the EVF and focus. When it looks focused i press the shutter. Occasionally i push the play button to review an image i just made.
I am well aware that the camera can do other things but this is all i need from it. When i need inspiration i look at a photo book. If i need to catch up on camera tech i read a forum or review.
Dont let other people complaints stop you from experimenting with a new medium.
 
N.delaRua said:
I struggle in this day in age because I want a digital camera, and I've been waiting patiently for something that has a aperture dial, DOF scales, and shutter dial that is affordable. While waiting, I have read reviews, and I have suffered greatly for it.
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You are going to wait a l-o-n-g time for that one.

I like my old mechanical, not battery dependent cameras too but a digital OM-1 ain't going to happen. And no, an OM-D with styling that is supposed to remind you of the OM film system is not it.

Here's the thing. The camera business is a minefield with several fatalities already (including Konica, one of the the oldest camera makers in Japan).
Each company is going to watch the other company's offerings like a hawk, seeking to incorperate as many 'features' as they can. Their goal is to sell cameras, to appeal to the broadest demographic, from professionals who need heavy duty, top of the line, read here; LARGE, HEAVY and EXPENSIVE equipment, to the great unwashed who will buy entry level DSLR's (as long as they have Canon or Nikon on the name plate). Cranks or old farts (I am both) just are not going to see a camera designed just for us.

And, even companies like Voigtlander, who can make beautiful manual focus lenses for the micro 4:3 mount, has only produced large heavy and expensive "gee whiz" lenses. Instead of a 25mm f.95 $1000 lens how about a tiny 25mm f2 $300 lens.
 
For some reason I expected a train wreck when I opened this thread.

I was pleasantly surprised!

As a digital-weenie turned to film photography, I have no complaints.
Digital cameras nowadays are so good, just pick one, any of them can make up to 11x14 prints that will blow me away.

Film photography on the other hand is like a bottomless well of interesting techniques, gadgets, images and historical facts, I am sorry I found it later in life, but I am glad I still get to do it.

I agree with N.delaRua, what is there to complain about?

Celebrate and use both!
 
jsrockit said:
Now, with regard to digital cameras, I'm never using any controls that aren't on most film cameras. I use the shutter speed dial, the aperture ring, the focus ring, and the shutter button. I don't understand why people think this is not possible with digital cameras.
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My primary digital camera, when I'm at home, is a Canon 5D (the original one) which has controls, functions etc. that are almost identical to those of my EOS 30V (aka Elan 7NE) film camera, give or take a couple of things like eye control focus on one, and digital-only controls like ISO and WB on the other.

Each can be used pretty much identically, whether in fully manual mode (manual setting of shutter, aperture, focus etc. with or without using the internal exposure meter) through to "green blob" auto-everything mode.

So any complaints about the controls (or complaints about complaints about the controls) would seem more related to attitudes to "automation vs manual" rather than "film vs digital", given that cameras with near identical controls are available, differing mainly in sensor technology (film vs digital).

If you dislike, say, autofocus (or matrix metering or whatever), or just dislike complaints about autofocus problems, then that's nothing to do with digital per se.

And I've never understood why people complain that a camera has some feature they don't use, as long as it's easy to switch off and get out of their way. If you don't like autofocus, or matrix metering, or program exposure mode or whatever then many cameras (including my 5D and 30V) make it quite possible to switch 'em off and never think about them again. (Control layout is a different thing: I can understand why people like, say, an aperture ring on the lens, a shutter dial on the top plate and so on. But that's not a film vs digital thing either: plenty of more recent film cameras use buttons and wheels rather than more traditional controls.)

...Mike
 
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Only until someone made the perfect digital camera ... which of course is the DP Merril. :D
 
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